[Worth reposting to top — editor]
This has got be a a lot of sick fun, American style. Although this is a day of automatic weapon shooting, note how we still cannot resist blowing things up!
I wonder what this little girl will be like when she’s in high school? I wouldn’t want to steal her lunch money, that’s for sure.
found by Paul Theodoropoulos
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A gun is a tool, just like a hammer or a chainsaw.
In the Modern world, only Guns are designed to kill. There are other tools that may be converted to kill, but that is not their primary purpose. Only a gun is designed to kill. Only if your job entails killing could the gun be a useful tool. And as with any tool, practice with that tool makes one a better craftsman. So you could take your choice, be a better carpenter or a better killer. If you want to make a connection between guns and cars then try that on some NRA asshole, I don’t buy it. (nailguns are an exception to this rule)
I am not totally against guns. Even though I don’t hunt, I fully support the right of anyone to hunt game and harmful varmints. There is a huge difference, however, between competition shooting and what is shown in the video.
Sure these people were wearing eye and hearing protection. That doesn’t forgive the “cowboy” (and I apologize to any real cowboys out there) mentality that just blindly firing off all those rounds is somehow a sport, or FUN. The young girl and the adult standing with the two machine pistols are evidence that these people don’t have the calm, concentration, and determination of a competition shooter or the hunter in a field. They were being destructive for the sake of being destructive and because they could afford it. Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some homeless guy. That was just pure destructive fun.
The way to change or stop the excesses with Bush and other Republicans is to vote. If you disagree with them then let them know; especially your Congressman up for re-election. Holding a gun in your hand while you leave it up to others to vote makes you just as bad and part of the problem.
John W.
Thank you for sharing your story. I apologize if this has brought back memories best forgotten.
Universal gun ownership is no guarantee of “freedom from tyranny”. Every Iraqi over the age of 16 owned an AK-47 or equivalent, and yet submitted to a tyrant for decades.
The young girl and the adult standing with the two machine pistols are evidence that these people don’t have the calm, concentration, and determination of a competition shooter or the hunter in a field.
Evidence? You are basing your judgement of these people’s abilities and competencies after watching a few minutes of video.
Just because the weapons shown are completely useless for hunting or competition shooting does not mean any of those people do not own weapons perfectly suited to those endeavors – or that they would not be competent at using them.
They were being destructive for the sake of being destructive and because they could afford it.
Those people have all registered with the BATF and their States, and accepted the responsibility of maintaining a weapon that cannot be easily disposed of – since every transfer of ownership must be documented. Which is probably why most crimes are not committed with “machine guns” – because their owners are all “on file”.
They are shown using those weapons in the only way they can legally be used – firing off a lot of ammo, really fast. Not my cup of tea, but not a danger to society.
Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some homeless guy.
You’ve mentioned this a couple of times, and I still don’t think it is a valid argument in this context.
This fine father is merely teaching his daughter that happiness is a warm gun. And if she continues her study of the safe and effective use of firearms, her chances of being raped or robbed goes down significantly.
“Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some homeless guy. That was just pure destructive fun.”
NO – that was pure fricken evil. Please know the difference.
> In the Modern world, only Guns are designed to kill.
I have no idea what you mean by “designed to kill.” One could argue that is true of any weapon (oh, and almost anything can be used as a weapon). Are all knives “designed to kill”? What’s the difference between a knife that is “designed to kill” and one that is not? This sounds suspicously like the idiots that passed the assault weapons ban in California. Basically, weapons that look scary were banned. Mechnically and functionally, there are no different from any other gun.
>Only if your job entails killing could the gun be a useful tool.
So, biathlon competitors have jobs that designed to kill? Expert target shooters have jobs that are “designed to kill.” Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and last I checked they all carry firearms. You cannot seem to separate the tool from the way it is used. The tool is designed to propel an object at very high velocity in a consistent and accurate manner. What you do with that tool is an entirely different matter.
>There is a huge difference, however, between
> competition shooting and what is shown in the video.
There is one commonality amongst competition shooting and this video: fun. These people are using their guns in a safe manner and having fun doing it. In addition, what is not shown is how much target shooting actually took place before the grand finale.
> That doesn’t forgive the “cowboy” (and I apologize to any
> real cowboys out there) mentality that just blindly firing
> off all those rounds is somehow a sport, or FUN.
Why? What is so wrong with what they are doing? No one is getting hurt by this activity. They are participating in the equivalent of a Fourth of July event where everyone gets to shoot the fireworks instead of just a few people.
> Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be
> fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some
> homeless guy.
There is VAST difference: in the case of the shooters, the participants are having fun while trying to ensure no one gets hurt whereas in the Florida case people are participating in an activity specifically designed to hurt someone. That you are incapable of seeing the difference between the two is far more disturbing than the video. Just as there is a vast difference between an ignorant racist idiot shouting anti-Semitic propaganda and actually *acting* on that rhetoric in a way that hurts people so is there a difference between shooting a bunch of machine guns on a range and actually shooting *at* someone.
>The way to change or stop the excesses with Bush
>and other Republicans is to vote
And this is relevant to this video or the discussion how?
What I like most about this is that AdWords is delivering classifieds for “Classic Cars” and “Automotive CRM” alongside a burning hulk of Detroit’s finest. Internet serendipity at its finest!
I find it horrifying that guns like that exist, but I’m glad all those bullets are going into a hillside and not people. Paintball seems like it’s way more satisfying.
People who buy guns “for protection” are just fooling themselves. Having a gun doesn’t automatically make you safe, and can even put you in more danger.
Mike and Thomas
Neither can see the connection between having fun and having fun. You justify one method, because you think like the participants. You dislike the other because it repulses you. All the participants in both scenarios only think of the fun.
Are all knives “designed to kill”? What’s the difference between a knife that is “designed to kill” and one that is not?
A knife is used to cut. It can separate meat into smaller parts for eating. It may be attached to a turning cylinder and used to smooth wood. It may be used to slit steel into usable sizes. A very common and useful tool.
Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and last I checked they all carry firearms.
Yup. Police are trained to shoot to kill. The idea that they are trained to shoot to injure or stop is Hollywood bullcrap. When they squeeze that trigger, they are aiming to kill.
So, biathlon competitors have jobs that designed to kill? Expert target shooters have jobs that are “designed to kill.”
Biathlon is a Nordic sport based on traveling on skis and shooting a target. It is not a job and they are not paid to be biathlon athletes. Target Shooting is the same thing. People are not paid to shoot targets all day. They are both SPORTS, not to be confused with jobs. Some may test the guns in the factories, they are not target shooting. Target guns, for the most part, make poor hunting weapons with the exception of skeet shooting.
The biathlon is a sport that has grown out of military form. The javelin and shot putt are others.
There is one commonality amongst competition shooting and this video: fun.
I think most serious target shooters don’t consider their sport FUN. They might use more appropriate words like, enjoyable, satisfying, or relaxing.
Evidence? You are basing your judgement of these people’s abilities and competencies after watching a few minutes of video.
Yup !!! You got it !!! Because that is what this post is about. Those yahoo idiots blazing away with no purpose in mind. It is not about hunting, biathlons, competition target shooting, or useful tools. None of those actually apply to this video. I don’t care how doting a Dad he might be. Allowing his daughter to shoot a machine gun shows me enough of his parenting skill to seriously think about sterilizing some people is a good policy.
currently, i have a gun and don’t need it. i’m no less safe having it – the gun has yet to jump out of the locked drawer and shoot me, and i’m quite sure it’s not going to.
And this is not a problem. The gun is being treated with respect and is unavailable to any random passerby. And may you never need to use it either.
Pat,
Every time you open your mouth stupid falls out. I won’t debate you point for point here as others have done so in an effective military manner, you have demonstrated that your idiocy knows no bounds.
To all who have served this, the greatest country on the face of the earth, thank you.
To those of you offended by the video, you may thank those who did serve for your right to be offended. I don’t have to like what you say but I defend your right to say it. Except for Pat, my service in no way was intended to defend your right to be so damn ignorant, you and the “all males over 16 had guns in Iraq” commenter, he’s a moron too. Remember, all generalizations are false.
Navy guy
> Neither can see the connection between having fun and having fun.
There is no question that two sides of a tautology have a connection. Yep. Flawless logic.
> Are all knives “designed to kill”? What’s the difference
> between a knife that is “designed to kill” and one that is
> not?
>
> A knife is used to cut….
You don’t get it. Suppose I have two knives. What characteristics make one knife “designed to kill” and another knife not? Is a sword “designed to kill”? What about a letter opener sized sword? What about a dagger? What about a sharp piece of glass? What exactly are the parameters by which something is “designed to kill”?
> Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and
> last I checked they all carry firearms.
>
> Yup. Police are trained to shoot to kill. The idea that
> they are trained to shoot to injure or stop is Hollywood
> bullcrap. When they squeeze that trigger, they are aiming
> to kill.
The police are trained NOT to kill unless lives are in eminent jeopardy. They are responsible for every bullet that comes from their gun. If they shoot, they better have damn good justification or else they lose their job. Perhaps it is you that have been watching too many movies.
> So, biathlon competitors have jobs that designed to kill?
> Expert target shooters have jobs that are “designed to
> kill.”
>
> Biathlon is a Nordic sport based on traveling on skis and
> shooting a target. It is not a job and they are not paid to
> be biathlon athletes.
That *was* true when the Olympics had nothing but amateur athletes.
> Target Shooting is the same thing.
> People are not paid to shoot targets all day.
One word: endorsements.
> They are both SPORTS, not to be confused with jobs.
Oooooh….So Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady and Roger Clemens don’t have jobs. Got it.
> There is one commonality amongst competition shooting and
> this video: fun.
>
> I think most serious target shooters don’t consider their
> sport FUN. They might use more appropriate words like,
> enjoyable, satisfying, or relaxing.
You do realize you have not seen all the events that occurred that day. It is likely that earlier in the day or perhaps in another area were “serious” target shooters. By the way, I might be off on this one, but I suspect that the vast majority of people would consider an event that was “enjoyable, satisfying and relaxing” as fun.
> I don’t care how doting a Dad he might
> be. Allowing his daughter to shoot a machine gun shows me
> enough of his parenting skill to seriously think about
> sterilizing some people is a good policy.
This remark coming from the person that wanted to kill all gun owners. Quite the pacifist poster child you are.
Since you don’t understand the role of guns in society or worse, you think you understand when you don’t, you automatically ridicule that which you find perplexing. You should get out a bit more. See more of the country and not just the cities. Believe it or not, real people live, with lots of guns even, outside the major metropolitan areas, have done so for hundreds of years in this country alone and managed not wipe out humanity in those areas. You’d find it amazing. They actually teach their children how to use firearms properly and manage not shoot themselves or anyone else.
I am ammazed at the number of commentors who seem unable to say that it is wrong for a father to allow, or even encourage his daughter to shoot such a weapon. Are we unable to make any kind of judgment these days? Can we not say it is wrong?
Personal Opinion Only:
I am a white collar professional manager, with a career in the information tech field (reaching back to the big iron, punch card, assembly programming days).
I am also a gun collector and recreational shooter. I own many historic rifles and several modern ones. I shoot in pistol competition and high power rifle. I do enjoy the focus, relaxation and camaraderie of the shooting sports. I use hundreds and hundreds of rounds of ammo every year, one shot at a time. I used to hunt (25+ years ago), but I now live in a fairly urban area, and even though the deer wander through my back yard, I would rather just let them eat the flowers and wander back into the trees.
Additionally, I do like to occasionally take something which has greatly annoyed me (e.g. a hard drive which crashed and caused me heartburn) out to the range and just blow the (*&&^%$ out of it, even if I do spend WAY too much time picking up the pieces later.
In both cases, shooting is fun for me. Yes, FUN! In most men there seems to be a genetic predilection for loud noises and blowing things up, and I’m no exception. There is nothing which makes hard-core rapid fire destruction absolutely exclusive from controlled target shooting.
Can we not say it is wrong?
Sure, Patrick, but what is your objection to it? Honestly, I’d like to know, as I’m not sure what the harm is, as long as it’s done in a safe manner.
I should mention, too, that I suspect the fellow in the video is not the girl’s father, but just the owner of the gun.
Patrick,
“Can we not say it is wrong?”
Why can’t I say that its NOT wrong? As long as safety is practiced – its not. But thats my opinion. Just like saying its wrong is your’s.
Pueso,
If we could believe everything we see on the net I’d have a billion dollars, a 29′ penis and would live in the playboy mansion cause you can you know, just as long as you go here http://www.freebigpenisandbilliondollarsandliveintheplayboymansion.com
In all seriousness. I have family and friends who have done their time (and some are going back) in Iraq and they will tell you that yes, guns are out of control and far too prevalent but it has gotten much better and no, there is no way in hell “every Iraqi over the age of 16 had an AK47”.
And I’m sorry I called you a moron, you obviously have some ability to reason, not Pat though, he’s still an idiot. But hey, if ignorance is bliss Pat has got to be one happy citizen.
Navy Guy
“The police are trained NOT to kill unless lives are in eminent jeopardy. They are responsible for every bullet that comes from their gun. If they shoot, they better have damn good justification or else they lose their job.”
Your prior post>Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and last I checked they all carry firearms.
Ya, right. How many cops do you know that have been held to task for killing or even just shooting someone. Sounds like I caught you contradicting yourself. Either they are trained to kill when they shoot or they are not trained to kill. Which is it?
“Oooooh….So Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady and Roger Clemens don’t have jobs. Got it.”
Professional athletes might play a sport, but they don’t play the game AS A SPORT. They are paid to win. They are not paid to play fair, give a break, or not take advantage of their opponent. Your meandering thought process is showing the weakness of your position.
Now shall we tackle the knife argument. A knife is a tool. As with any tool, it may be used for purposes not intended. Using a screwdriver to pry off a lid is an example of using a tool for an unintended use. Stabbing someone with a screwdriver is also an unintended use. Clobbering someone in the head with a Nine Iron is not what it was intended for. Running over someone with an asphalt roller is not what it was intended for. Wacking someone with a shovel is not what it was intended for. Shooting someone with a nail gun is not what that was intended for. Shooting someone with a FIREARM is just what it was intended for. (With the exception of target guns)
Using a knife wrong is irresponsible. So is the incorrect use of a screwdriver, or asphalt roller, or Nine Iron, or shovel wrong and irresponsible. They may also be deadly.
You are right about swords, daggers, stilletos, foils, sabers, garrote, and other single use weapons. They also have minimal use other then as collector items. I have yet to see any videos of of a two handed idiot making stabbing / slashing motions with machine swords. I have yet to see a video of a father teaching his daughter the joys of using a garrote.
Which would you rather face, someone with a loaded Mac 10 or someone with a knife?
“This remark coming from the person that wanted to kill all gun owners. Quite the pacifist poster child you are.”
Uh, pardon me? Could you point to the post where I wished death on anyone?
“Since you don’t understand the role of guns in society or worse, you think you understand when you don’t, you automatically ridicule that which you find perplexing.”
Now where the f*** do you come up with this crap. Obviously you haven’t read my posts. You’re arguments are not only empty, but now they are asinine. I know the role of guns in society. I have seen what guns can do to people. I’ve felt the blood drip through my fingers. I’ve seen a life flicker out. I saw my tears mixing with the gore on the pavement. I wondered why. The mother’s screams will haunt me until the day I die. He was so little.
Don’t pretend that you know some bullshit about “I have a right”. Your posts show you know s***. Your right includes the responsibility to treat ALL weapons with respect. This video shows at least two instances of people being irresponsible. The only defense I could accept would be their limited intelligence.
The United States has the highest murder rate by far of ALL western society. The majority of homicides are committed using guns. Guns or the threat of guns are used in almost every bank robbery. Each year, more people are killed or injured with a gun kept for defensive purposes then are criminals shot. You don’t like those statistics, try the FBI, they release the same old numbers each year.
As I said before. Responsible gun owners and use are not the issue. Even though I don’t hunt, I have no problem with those that do. Full automatic weapons make very poor hunting guns and even worse target guns. A responsible hunter does not need a 10 round clip, let alone a 30 round clip or magazine.
Given the choice, I would much rather face some crazed idiot waving a knife then a Mac 10.
I would like to point out that murder is illegal to begin with. If guns are outlawed, do you think someone with the intent of killing another person (which is illegal) cares if it is done with a legal instrument, its still murder (which is illegal).
It is also naieve to think that people will stop heinous acts just because guns are removed. People who kill others are sick and twisted indivisuals to begin with. They will just need to be a bit more creative.
Biff
Sorry to see your 29′ penis is coming out your ear.
paul
Could you point to the post where I wished death on gun owners? Only two paragraphs after your diatribe above you quote me saying I support those that wish to hunt. Hhhmmm, you’re sounding a little hysterical on that one.
And of course you see no problem with the video. You wouldn’t either.
Some safety statistics for you for 2002, by the Center for Disease Control
Cause of death:
Assaults:
(Homicide) by discharge of firearms……11,546
(Homicide) by other means…………………..5,500
Legal Intervention………………………………….365
War………………………………………………………..21
Events of Undetermined Intent
Discharge of firearms, undetermined intent..214
Accidental discharge of firearms*……………..813
Suicide
by discharge of firearm………………………….16,882
by other and unspecified means………………13,732
Injury by Firearms,………………………………..29,737
Motor Vehicle Accidents**……………………..44,572
*classified under accidents, not further defined.
**for comparison
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_13.pdf
Table 2, page 18 and 19
I am unable to find statistics about the number of people killed by knives in the US or any other country. Perhaps you know of a link comparing the two. You know, to bolster your argument about their danger.
I’ve lived in both kinds of countries… with and without gun control laws.
I’ve seen gun control in real life scenarios and I’m convinced… gun laws works.
This was your original comment from #40:
>Only if your job entails killing could the gun be a useful tool.
I suggested that professional bialthetes use guns and their job does not entail killing. If there is even one bialthete that gets endorsements, then their job IS their sport and I didn’t even mention range masters. This still ignores the obvious fact that a tool for protection can also be used for recreation like swords.
Then you retorted with this ridiculous response:
> Professional athletes might play a sport, but they don’t
> play the game AS A SPORT. They are paid to win.
You are pointlessly attempting to draw a line between those that play a sport to win (btw, why play a [competition] sport if you are not trying to win?) and those that get paid to play a sport (but not to win?). This line of thinking is wholly irrelevant to the fact that there are uses for guns besides killing. I need only name one, such as recreation, to establish that point.
> They are not paid to play fair, give a break, or not take advantage
> of their opponent.
Where you were going with this I have no idea. Are somehow suggesting that professional athletes are paid to cheat?
>Now where the f*** do you come up with this crap…
I think Paul Theodoropoulos answered this nicely.
>I know the role of guns in society.
No, you think you know because you have apparently experienced a tragedy. I am empathetic for your loss, but you are still blaming the tool and not the person and events that caused the tragedy to hurt someone. If your tragedy had occurred with a knife, chainsaw or even Drano, would you then call for a ban on those items?
>This video shows at least two instances of people being irresponsible.
What would those be?
The only reason that I wouldn’t show this (which I most likely will) to by 10 and 12 year old boys, is that they would beg me to go. Looks like more fun than Disneyland to me. The only problem is that it would probably cost more.
I am sure that the little girl will have a lot more severe issues to deal with in life then going out with the old man to play with some big boys toys. If you can’t understand why guys like to blow stuff up, then maybe you should stay home, sit on the couch and eat some Tofu and watch Dr Phil while doing your nails.
I’m sure that a trip to a machine gun shoot would be cheaper than a trip to Disney, if you you went to watch and didn’t buy a machine gun while you were there.
The best thing about this country is that you can make your own decisions as to what is right for yourself instead of being forced, or at least it is still somewhat that way. So many people want to impose their own views and opinions on others with legislation. They want to retain their rights while taking rights from others. In the end, they take eveyone’s freedom away, law by law. That is what I call “lower intelligence”
One the other hand, you should still retain your feedom of speech, whatever you opinion. That being said… I think that strict gun control has worked well for France, Britan and Hitler. Besides, the french might drop their guns and damage them 🙂
Typical Amerika- this is what an European thinks 😉
Too bad we don’t live in a country that banns civilians from having guns, but sells weapons to tyransts!!!!
America is not perfect by any means, but go and try to protest over in China, Nepal, South Africa, Somalia, Cuba, Colombia, MEXICO, and so many others that why even bother with you!!
Don’t forget Europe has not won one single war without “THE AMERICANS!!!!
“Abandon your animosities and make your sons Americans” Robert. E Lee
i LOVE guns! i believe in God, FATE & KARMA! do NOT believe in BLOWING AWAY INNOCENT ANIMALS & calling that “sport.” there are sick & disturbing people who RAPE & MURDER or have SEX with children & they feel this is a sport for them. since it IS something they seem to enjoy doing NO matter how many lives they destroy. the problem with OPINIONS is that if an opinion causes the death or destruction of someone or something, then that certain opinion should have NO merit or value in our society. opinions that do NOT cause harm to others then that opinion should be allowed to exist. as for being interested in big guns & enjoying (i admit it) their “deadly” beauty, i have NEVER nor WOULD I EVER harm another living thing! i am a LONG TIME vegetarian & do not understand why supposedly DECENT law abiding people enjoy hunting & killing helpless, terrified & innocent animals! they should always remember “its NEVER any fun when the rabbit has the gun!” but as for target shooting at bottles or cans? its great fun if you can afford it!
“Which would you rather face, someone with a loaded Mac 10 or someone with a knife?”
At close range? I would much rather face the MAC-10 than the knife, as would almost everybody who knows anything about close-quarters combat.
As to the rest of your post, you merely fight fact and logic with emotion and hysteria.
I’d like to take the time to dissect your argument and topple each point like a house of cards, but I’m leaving for the gun range now. I’ll just leave the task up to others; I have little to say that these fine people quoted below haven’t already said:
*****
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. ~Sigmund Freud”
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. ~Thomas Jefferson”
“You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass. ~Admiral Yamamoto”
(Advising Japan’s military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan’s decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory.)
“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. ~Adolf Hitler”
“A free people ought to be armed. ~George Washington”
“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms. ~James Madison”
“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. ~John F. Kennedy”
“That rifle on the wall of the laborer’s cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. ~George Orwell”
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. ~The Dalai Lama”
“There’s no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them. ~Israeli Police Inspector General Shlomo Aharonisky”
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