Republic Mexico City Bureau – Jan. 24, 2006:
Mexico’s human rights agency says it will give out detailed maps of the Arizona desert, including rescue beacons and water stations, to guide migrants safely through the most popular and deadliest corridor into the United States.
The maps are the latest effort by activists to aid undocumented immigrants as they trek across the border, helping to fuel a raging debate over illegal immigration in Arizona and other parts of the United States.
Two rights commission officials confirmed the quasi-governmental agency had agreed to print and distribute the maps through its state offices to reach Mexican migrants before they ever leave their hometowns. It has not decided how many copies to print or how much it will spend on the project, the officials told The Republic.
Arizona Rep. Jim Kolbe, a Republican, said he supports the maps as a way of saving lives.
Here’s another piece by the Tucson Citizen – January 25, 2006.
Update: Surprise surprise, the plan has been scrapped, at least temporarily. Thanks BenFranske!
Two things:
a) These so called ‘aliens’ and ‘illegals’ are human beings, risking their lives trying to improve their own and that of their families. In the vast majority, they are simple peasants that are willing to work hard, at low wages, in jobs that most people in the USA don’t want anyway. So if their trek goes ‘bad’, and they need some help surviving by having directions to an emergency water station, it’s the right thing to do. That is the purpose of these maps… survival if you take take the trek. What isn’t said is that the same maps say that the trip is risky, deadly, illegal, subject to abuses. You people that call yourselves Christians, but would be happy to see these people die rather than make it into the USA, just thing WWJD, and then be ashamed of yourselves.
b) I guess that the CIA and the FBI and Homeland security and the Border Patrol are too inept or stupid to get hold of the maps themselves, and use them as part of the enforcement process. ‘X’ marks the spot to try to find undocumented migrants, could it be any simpler?
So the maps are a good thing from both perspectives… human survival and law enforcement.
1) This is old news, I saw it on the local news (in Minnesota!) several days ago.
2) As of the news broadcast last night the program has been scrapped due to concerns that anti-immigrant groups would stalk to the “safe havens” listed on the map and kill or injure the immigrants.
What’s happening is equivalent to an invasion, and it’s certainly interesting that some “liberals” support that invasion, and some of those even stoop to trying to claim that Jesus would support it.
The U.S. is a sovereign country and as such has a right to determine who comes in and who does not. It has a right to defend its borders and to take advantage of natural defenses.
Those who want to prevent migrant deaths should spend their time discouraging crossings.
Those who want to prevent worker abuse should spend their time preventing illegal immigration, because any time you have illegal aliens you have a greatly increased chance of worker abuse.
The Mexican government encourages “migration” because those who leave are more valuable being out of the country. They send money home and they’re less likely to press for changes.
This situation also leads to corruption in the U.S., and politicians receive donations from those companies that profit off illegal immigration and in turn refuse to enforce our laws.
Don’t buy simplistic arguments, and please don’t be a useful idiot for the Mexican government, crooked politicians, and corporations that profit off illegal labor.
As of the news broadcast last night the program has been scrapped due to concerns that anti-immigrant groups would stalk to the “safe havens” listed on the map and kill or injure the immigrants.
There are no such concerns, that’s simply BS from the Mexican government. The maps were yet another PR disaster for them, and that was their parting shot.
Comment 3 brings up a great point. Publishing the xistence of these maps will only help the “minutemen” establish ambushes and potentially destroy/contaminate these water supply havens.
On another note, comment 2 brings up the real issue. The US economy is dependent on this cheap labor and the cheapness of the labor is dependent on the illegality of it. Large agrabusinesses and manufacturers work with contacts in Mexico to recruit these workers and set them up with low-wage employment in the States. The infulx of immigrants will not wane unless something is done about the huge corporate SYSTEM that brings these people here.
Steve – You address none of my points: human beings trying to make a better life for themselves, survival if things go bad, the fact that the maps discourage travel yet assist if things go bad and the fact that the maps can be of assistance to law enforcement.
As far as economics and hiring practices. Low wage jobs are an economic necessity, without low wage jobs the economy falls apart. Peek in the back room of your local dry-cleaners, or your local restaurant for proof. If those jobs were done by people expecting the wages that we consider reasonable, the businesses would not exist, because you would not use them due to the expense.
I just find it frustrating to constantly hear this sense of entitlement that many have.. the “I’m an Americun!” attitude, when in reality the life that they live is nothing but an accident of birth. Since virtually all US citizens are descendants of immigrants, they owe their good fortune to the fact that someone in their past decided to come this way, instead of moving somewhere else or staying where they were.
I guess it just boils down to viewing people around the world as human beings and wishing them a better life, not only as ‘aliens’ that are automatically lesser beings because they are not ‘Americun!’
IR – WWJD?
There are 3.5 billion people on the earth with a lower standard of living than the Mexicans. Do they also have a claim on our jobs and taxes?
Corporatings don’t need my help, or that of migrant workers. The government-by-the-wealthy, government-for-the-wealthy does a great job by itself.
– No bid contracts.
– Open cost contracts
– No taxes against corporations
– Tax incentives for offshoring and raising profits for same services.
– Reduced environmental regulations while charging more for same services.
– No increased taxes for windfalls (such as oil prices) that actually reduce federal and state income.
– Tax exclusions for mega-corporate-churches that earn 100’s of millions of dollars.
– Abramoff…
I don’t see this as bad. Give out the maps – and have the border patrol be waiting at the stops. This saves lives and cuts the round up costs.
Second – fine employers that knowingly use illegals.
Agreed with STA: If you want to solve the problem, really solve it and go after the employers. Going after the poor is a waste of time, since you can’t take anything away from people who have nothing.
Hell, I got some other great ideas to go with this one…
1. We will give all burglars blue-prints for banks and the homes of the wealthy so that the thiefs will not have to look around and they will be able to spend more time with their babies and their babies’ mamma.
2. We will issue keys and safe combinations for the aforementioned locations, that way burglars will not have to break windows or dig tunnels.
3. All criminals (or aspiring criminals) will be taught non-lethal techniques to subdue law enforcement officials and security guards, that way they won’t have to kill them.
Note: This technique can also be very useful for subduing pesky witnesses or home residents. Be careful, however, if you did not wear a mask and they saw your face, you will still have to kill them.
4. We will rename the border partol the “Greeting Committee” and replace there guns and ammunition with Lais and Mai-Tais (served in coconut shells of course).
5. The US Government, with the full backing of the Mexican government will issue a memo to all countries and organizations that pose a threat to national security and ask them, very nicely, to not use these maps to cross in to the US and “Ruin it for everyone else”.
6. We will continue to assume that the mexican immigrants are to stupid to know that law enforcement will be waiting at the X (That marks the spot).
Note: We know of course, that the few *smart* Mexicans will know that the border patrol is at the crossing point, but we assume they will still die in the desert trying to figure out at which other part of the hundreds of miles of border they can climb the fence. After all, that is the hardest part.
7. In order to not have to deal with rising health-care costs and other general ickiness the United States will begin to export everyone with AIDS, Cancer (Terminal only), and other weird diseases to Canada. That way we won’t have to deal with them and Canada has such a great healthcare system already in place. In fairness to the Canadians, they will have to go to the doctors that no sick Canadian wants to go to.
Steve you totally miss the point man.
Rascism begins in the U.S when you willingly go look for a certain race because you know they will accept lower wages, or in some cases will work without advanced pay and will accept 30 dollars to 10 hours work.
That’s not just wrong its terribly work.
Mexico also broadcasted Bush’s words about amnesty when he said that just about two three years ago now. We had a 30% increase of the flow in California. So Bush sends some cronies to take a survey of the illegals about 4 monthes before election time to quell the rumors about the rise being because of his comments. Know what the results were?
Well over 80% of them said the reason they came was “Because of your president Bush offering Amnesty.”
So they sealed the records and they weren’t uncovered until after the election.
People with mid level jobs in the contruction industry used to get paid 28 dollars an hour in the 1980s. Now its around 21 dollars an hour. Inflation hasn’t suddenly reversed in this time so how is that possible. Oh yeah cause you got sub contractors that are willing to pick up people at Home depot and lower the standard of living for everyone.
No businesses in California have been fined. It’s all total bs.
And amazingly enough if I go to a state that isn’t a hot border state. White black and asian people are doing these jobs “American’s don’t want” including gardening, restautant working, construction, and cleaning.
That’s a complete B.S myth man. Americans will do the job. Americans won’t work for under minimum wage which is apparently also against the law.
So just know when you suppord “Undocumented workers” you also support abuse.
I like to play Mad-libs (no pun intended) with these Illegal immigration discussions.
I replace the words “Illegal immigrants” or “Mexicans” with the word “Slave” and wonder if we could be having this same discussion in the 1800’s.
They work hard.
They work cheap.
They do the work WE won’t do (god forbid our kids get of their asses from playing video games and IM chat to flip burger or cut lawns).
If they slack off we can discard them and get another one.
They live 30 to a single family house and don’t complain.
My last few words on this topic.
It’s sad to see that so many Americans have lost their sense of history, and where they actually come from, replacing it instead with this sense of superiority, entitlement and exclusion. Most of the objections to immigration, legal or illegal, has little to do with “National Security” and much to do with the objectionists own insecurities and fears. Fear that ‘their culture’ is being disturbed, or that their social customs are being changed, or that their local economic system will evolve. Fear based on ignorance and supersticion. Fear with little basis in any real facts or events.
I bring up the WWJD subject up several times because I think it is very pertinent to the subject. Most people that fear immigration in it’s various forms are the most right wing amongst Americans, quick to call themselves Christians, yet they have no answer to that question because they know deep down inside that god is not on their side on this matter. They can not answer the WWJD question.
As a reminder, here is what greeted most of our European relatives:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
That is what America once stood for. And the world respected, admired and loved us for it. We prospered in ways that was the envy of every other person in the world.
But now the descendents of those immigrants have forgotten their roots, and the new saying could be from another notorious lady:
“Let them eat cake” (a myth I know, but I’m making a point)
And let us not forget what the fate of that second lady ended up being.
Which one of those ladies best represents America today? Look outside the palace walls for an answer.
Sorry Awake, but illegal immigration HURTS the American economy. The over abundance of the illegals, be they Latin American, Chinese, or Arabian, drive down almost all wages, not just the lowest levels. As the wages fall, the “middle class” don’t have the money to spend. With no purchases , everybody else hurts.
The point that the CIA, FBI, Border Patrol and others couldn’t find them at the safe havens is moot. When they are found they are shipped back to the border and dumped off. Next thing you know they are sneaking back in. If they get caught further from the border, the Immigration Folks from Homeland Insecurity gives them a notice to appear. Ya, like 80% never are seen again. Sounds silly right? Well its because there are so many illegals that the facilities can’t hold them all.
Since so much of the illegals work under the table, there are few taxes paid. Yet, the illegals do make use of the tax supported infrastructure. They use the hospitals, the schools, the highways, and social systems. They drive uninsured and do occasionally hit other vehicles. The children over tax schools with non English speaking students who need extra help. Living together in large numbers, they add to sewage problems without contributing any taxes.
Most Americans support fair play. The one thing we don’t support are line jumpers. If they really want to enter this country, come in the front door as so many other LEGAL immigrants have done and still do. Line jumpers do not invoke sympathy.
Really… my last words on this subject…
Steve says:
“Let them eat cake”
Who said that or anything like it in this forum?”
Steve,if you don’t get that simple reference, well Jethro, no sense in arguing anymore.
Yes Steve, whatever you say.
I decided to withdraw from this argument because our words are truly eloquent, the truth of your words indisputable. As a matter of fact, I would call your performance in this debate absolutely Presidential.
I am a citizen, I voted in the last election, and I want the following: a well-regulated border. The leadership is derelict in their duty to control the boarder. The only time Ive crossed boarders that were not under control was in Europe (Germany France, that I can remember). This is not the situation I want in the US. Either control the boarder Mr. Bush, or remove it (like the Europeans).
I would like the US to use the Saudi model of “guest worker” documentation and control (kidding).
Once and for all, we (the government) need to decide whether to start aggressively enforcing immigration laws, or just give up and remove them from the books.
The immigration problem can be summed as this: Should we allow an unlimited number of immigrants to come into the country? If the answer is yes, then we should dismantle the border completely as it is no longer needed. On the other hand, if we *should* limit the number of immigrants coming into the country then one more than the limit is unacceptable. We can talk about what that limit should be, but we MUST accept that those that illegally exceed the limit or bypass our restrictions must be prevented or else the limit has no meaning.
Saying that this country is based on cheap labor is different than saying it is based on *illegal* cheap labor.
To Awake:
LEGAL immigration is what this country was founded upon not ILLEGAL immigration. Your arguments are the common mantra of those that want to do nothing: “You oppose immigration.” NO! We oppose ILLEGAL immigration. I’m all for increasing the immigration limit. But whatever that limit is, we have to punish those that bypass that limit and those that employ illegals severely.
RE: #26, I have crossed the USA 3 times by car (me driving all the way), 2800 miles in less than 4 days. Yes the border is long.
The Saudis have 4240 miles of boarder and coast line, and I know they desire to control movement inside and through their country.
We could have a closed border if that was a requirement. A single aircraft carrier is manned by 5500 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz_class_aircraft_carrier), a carrier battle group (CVBG) even more. A wall, and automated systems, would reduce the staffing requirement of a closed Southern border (using your estimate) to the level of a few CVBGs. GregAllen, you want an open border that does not restrict entry and exit by the innocents and criminals alike. I’d like to suggest that if you haven’t driven into Mexico from the USA, then do so… Tijuana is quite a sight.
If the “War on Drugs” money were spent controlling the border, rather than in SA countries eradicating crops and other extra-national efforts, perhaps we’d treat two problems (or three, the “terrorists”) at once.
Anyway, my ultimate goal would be for the illegals to pay all the taxes that are due on their income. They use the services of the USA….
I don’t think that Mexico wants to be our 51st state.
I do think that there are terribly mixed messages by this government…and the whole amnesty thing was a hoax…and it did it’s purpose…to drive DOWN wages, and burden western states (like California) with masses of people who need services.
ILLEGAL aliens, are not undocumented workers. They are ILLEGAL. They do not belong here, they do not need to be here, they are not helping. As for looking for a better life, jobs, etc….I know a group of AMERICANS who need that….they’re our black Americans (aka. african-american) and our uneducated white Americans.
But, if you want to select an ethnic group that is suffering from the heavy influx of cheap labor look to Black Americans. The unemployment is daunting. Our inner cities are a third-world country!! Kids are going without, people are preying on each other, and the schools are dismal. We don’t have to go very far to find poverty….. so, why encourage importing poverty. Poor is poor.
So, basically, Awake is racist….and thinks that brown skinned foreigner is more needy than our own, homegrown black skinned folk and poor “white” trash.
Let’s help our own first. Get the illegals out, and let the legals obtain employment. Geez, doesn’t take a brainiac to see this.
Neither the blurb nor anyone’s comments mention the red dots. When I heard this story on NPR on Friday (maybe Thursday?) they interviewed a representative from the (Tucson-based) organization that designed the maps, who said that the main feature of the maps was a red dot everywhere that someone had died making the journey. The intended message was not “here’s how to cross safely,” but instead, “stay home, because if you try to cross, you’ll die.”
This is an important part of the story because without it people (who don’t click through to the article, anyway) think that the map-makers are actually encouraging folks to make the journey.
please, read this
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/13661300.htm
it’s not all innocent, hard working “wanna better life” people wandering across that border…. hence why we need to enforce our immigration laws.