Ford Motor Co. introduced a new hybrid research vehicle on Wednesday in a bid to show consumers — and U.S. policy makers — it is serious about overhauling its business and embracing fuel-saving innovations.
The U.S. auto giant says the small sport-utility vehicle is the first hybrid capable of operating on blends of fuel containing up to 85 percent ethanol.
In many ways, that’s the important bit. Facility and ease are the keywords in making a transition to many alternative energy systems. Worst case scenario for filling stations is just a matter of adding another tank and pump for ethanol blends. Delivery and all the other logistics are in place.
General Motors introduced its Saturn Vue Green Line sport-utility hybrid at the same auto show and launched an advertising campaign on Wednesday to trumpet nine E85 FlexFuel models, including full-size trucks, SUVs and mid-sized passenger cars.
GM, which has also launched a massive restructuring, plans to produce 450,000 FlexFuel models in 2006. A spokesman said GM is mindful of the potential for E85/hybrid technology as well.
Ford plans to produce up to 250,000 ethanol-capable vehicles this year, including the Ford F-150 pickup.
Both sets of clowns are releasing commercials praising themselves for inventing everything from hybrids to wind and sunlight. Of course, they’re lightyears behind everyone else [which means Toyota and Honda] at actually delivering a damned thing. Still, it’s an achievement to get these rusty juggernauts to turn even a small corner.
I think what they really plan to deliver is questionable. “Research vehicle”, by the way, means they’re not certain of getting enough parts from Toyota to deliver anything.
[Footnote included for nitpickers: Yes, Ford actually “delivered” 1st version of Escape hybrid in 2005. My local Ford dealer got 1 — it was presold and the purchaser waited 5 months.]
-Eideard-
So…let me get this straight. You are not a big fan of American car companies. Am I right?
I liked Jon Stewart’s comment on this thing- he said it would run partly on gas, partly on electricity and partly on the tears of the children of unemployed (Ford) workers.
Unfortunately, it’s going to take consumers having to consistently pay $2-$4/gallon of gas for them to complain in enough numbers to the car companies to make them finally do something about it. Technology is light years beyond what it was in the 70s, but after the gas crunch in the 70s, car manuafacturers should have started working on alternate fuel designs aside from diesel. Once Toyota and Honda started making viable hybrid cars, the American car manufacturers didn’t try to compete–they stood back and waited to see if Americans took to it. And since they did, and the price of gas has gone up and stayed up, now they’re “coming to our rescue” and building these fuel-alternative and hybrid vehicles. Woo frickin’ hoo. Try being proactive instead of reactive next time.
It seems you don’t realize that the Escape Hybrid has been available for at least a year now. The news here is that this one can run on E85, not just gasoline.
The thing to check is whether the electrics are there to boost gas milage, or low end acceleration with only minimal increases in milage. Fuel efficient SUV is an oxymoron.
Chris — I am not a big fan of lots of car companies. American car companies appear to be the worst in the world — right now — at design, innovation and understanding a changing market. At the moment, Ford and GM have the lead over Peugeot, Renault, Isuzu and anyone left in England.
John — read my last paragraph in the post.
K Ballweg — like most “compact” SUV’s [Forester, etc.] — the Escape isn’t a truck-based vehicle. It’s a short, tall, station wagon. A useful concept.
Those are not “experimental” cars, hybrid cars has been selling in Brazilian market for almost 3 years now and make up for about 75% of all new cars.
All major players in our market, including American companies, have hybrid cars offers (Ford, Fiat, Volkswagen, GM, Renault, etc).
Brazil has a huge production of ethanol made from Sugar Cane and this allowed us to cut on oil imports to the point of near self-sufficiency.
You may be wrong about Peugeot and Renault
Ballweg, make no mistake: The electrics are there to boost sales, nothing else.
All this crap about hybrids is just foolish. The first hybrids (Insight, Prius) got great mileage because: THEY’RE SMALL, LIGHTWEIGHT CARS WITH REASONABLE AERODYNAMICS.
If you put a small diesel in either of those cars, they would have gotten better, more consistent fuel mileage. (And if you ran them on B100, their net emissions would be lower, but that’s a side argument)
Double-thanks to GM for today’s lack of available passenger diesels: 1. for making such crappy diesels in the 80’s
2. for not being PROACTIVE in bringing them back.
I think the environment is ripe for a VW Lupo-style vehcile here in the states. Small, diesel, 65mpg. What more could you want?! :^)
Ford really needs to do something to boost their sales and I believe if they hurry up and jump on the hybrid wagon they could be a potential top seller of hybrid vehicles. I don’t know if anyone has realized that today there are not many Ford’s on the road, even the mustang has kind of puttered out. A company know for it’s big utility vehicles, needs to reinvent itself quick!
Innovation takes a degree of risk. Corporate America today loathes risk taking. Boards had rather sit back taking in marginal profits then scrap the company when it dies. The thing about American automotive companies is they do invest heavily in R&D and market research, but still have cold feet toward new trends. Safer to wait and copy far eastern designs. I bought a loaded Mercury Sable, “Tarus”, new 3.5 years ago for $24K. The blue book is now below $8K. A Honda would have held considerable more value.
Ryan — only small points of difference. Diesel-hybrids are equally an advance over diesel alone. Daimler-Chrysler already has test vehicles roaming the US. Here in the states, sadly, diesel is now more expensive than gasoline. Bio-diesel more expensive than both — though economies of scale may change that.
But, over the lifetime of a motor vehicle, the cost of maintaining a diesel is higher than a gasoline engine. That’s a significant portion of any prospect’s budget — though, it’s not likely the average American consumer does a heck of a lot more than watch the TV adverts.
Hey, site admin — on a case by case basis you may be correct. I was judging Ford and GM on a global scale and the 2 French champions I referenced haven’t had the balls to wander into North America in a while.
Are there any reports or studies available that document what the real environmental impact of hybrid or electric cars will be?
When hundreds of millions of folks all over the world become dependent on automobiles for transportation won’t that, in itself, be an environmental disaster — even if we all use hybrids or electric cars? Surely, there will be enormous environmental damage caused by the need for gazillions of lead-acid or other kinds of rechargable batteries. It will take energy and create pollution to make them, recycle them, charge them every day and dispose of them. And that’s not to mention what the environmental cost of the vehicles, themselves, with their tires, plastics and other components will be.
Can the earth really sustain that or are we just fooling ourselves?
I certainly don’t have any answer, but it seems to me that our “leaders” ( I use quotes because I wonder if there are any to be found) really need to be looking into other ways of moving people around.
Once the EPA begins its new millage testing standards, hybrids won’t be such “big news”. Most of the stuff coming from car companies that is supposed to save you gas is either total bullshit (ie: GM’s displacement on demand) or something that in reality only makes a difference in a test lab under totally unreal conditions (Escape hybrid)
The key to fuel economy is lighter cars with smaller engines. This is why almost all companies had a better CAFE 20 years ago than they do now with all this wiz-bang crapola. We aren’t going to solve our very real energy problem by trying to cram a bunch of bleeding edge junk into a tippy-ass shit box SUV hoping that it might get half the millage we got from our 1989 Civic HFs (which was around 50mpg in practical, everyday use on straight gasoline, btw). Hybrid tech is just a way for auto makers to pass CAFE fees onto the consumers. After the warranty exprires, you’ll have to buy the *four* unique batteries in the new semi-hybrid picks-ups from GM at probably $80+ each. You’ll have to buy that goofy ass starter/generator they have, which is probably amazingly expensive. The truck also has a traditional 12 volt battery as well. You get all the maintenance crap of a regular gas engine to deal with, *plus* all the hybrid junk, the cost of which I can only speculate upon. GM charges $150 for a cheap piece of crap window switch in a Lumina even though it was built by Mexican wage slaves who couldn’t have made more than $0.05 building it. I can only imagine what Toyota will want for a 440v battery in a Prius.
Face it. We have to ditch the DVD players, the 17” wheels, the dual sliding doors, the pick-up beds that are always empty, the power windows, the 4WD that rusts away from lack of use, the automatic transmissions, the always-on AC, and the idea that only an engine that runs on 87 octane with 3+ liters of displacement producing 240+ HP will do. Adapt or die.
I don’t understand the “finally” part. I saw a Ford hybrid suv months ago in front of me on the road while driving to work. I wonder if it was a worker at the plant?
I think I’ve heard enough from the intellectual elite and their opinions on American cars. They only get headlines when something bad happens. Just like SUV’s the article reads “Town Mayor’s Cat Hit By SUV”, any psuedo newstory becomes bigger if the SUV moniker is used. I guess American cars are IT when it comes to Dvorak Uncensored. GM and Ford are so STUPID not to build cars that cheat the EPA’s mileage test, let alone horsepower ratings. The elite KNOW that Japanese & German cars are sooo much better and sooo much cleaner why would they consider a GM or Ford. “GM & Ford should stop offering incentives and build what consumers want” is the mantra of NPR & other commentators. I think that they all forget that at 51% of the people who voted in 2004 are stupid or brainwashed, 47% were pragmatic and 1% were idealists. It may take a while for the public to learn that GM & Ford build vehicles of the highest quaility, utility, styling, innovation and excellent gas mileage. I just wish one intellectual elite would for once figure this out before another midwesterner buys a Ford or GM vehicle.
Fábio C. Martins: You misunderstand what is mean by “Hybrid”. A hybrid is gas-electric, an engine system that is half internal combustion engine, and half electric motor. Your “Flex” cars (or whatever) adapt to different fuel mixes, but thay are not hybrids.
I commented about Hybrids in the sense used on the article posted here, which was referring to “Flex” cars.
Eideard,
I beg to differ(please, please let me differ!) The cost of maintaining a diesel need not be any more than a gasoline vehicle. In fact, it can be lower. There are no spark plugs, or spark plug wires to change. The oil change interval on diesel vehicles is usually longer than their gasoline counterparts. I am currently on a 15,000 mile OCI, (verified with oil analysis). Diesel engines will generally outlast their gasoline counterparts as well.
Currently, diesel in my area is $2.609 for premium diesel. Premium gas is about $2.309. A gasoline Jetta (identical to mine except for engine) will get 30 mpg.. Mine(TDI) is currently getting 46mpg. Diesel would have to cost over $3.45 to make the fuel cost/mile the same. There are several areas where B99 can be purchased cheaper than standard diesel (but only due to government tax incentives)
And, diesel hybrids suffer from the same problem that gasoline hybirds do: They are a realitively heavy, complex system whose main benefit lies in recapturing energy during braking. If you are a highway commuter, a manual transmission will be more efficient every time. In stop-and-go city driving, the nod goes to the hybrid. (although carefully managed city driving can produce identical results in a diesel and standard transmission)
My examples are anecdotal to be sure, but ending the misconceptions about diesel and getting more of them into daily use is, in my opinion, one of the quickest and most painless ways to reduced oil consumption and CO2 emissions.
Plus, it is SO MUCH FUN to drive a diesel, and to watch in disbelief as a TDI smokes a Rumble Bee in the quarter mile, and be able to drive to work on monday and get 50 mpg! Link(http://www.stealthtdi.com/Forums/BenCar-VdubRumbleB.mpg)
Ryan
Thank you, Mikal. What bothers me most is that even though American car companies are losing market share, they are still some of the largest employers in the US. If they go away, there are thousands of jobs that won’t come back.
Sure, you can tell me that Japanese companies have assembly plants in Tennessee, California or Kentucky, but where areethe engineers? Where are the metal workers? Where are the stampers? Where are the parts manufacturers? Those jobs remain in Japan, Germany or Korea. Those jobs don’t get exported. Instead, they pay Americans a few paltry dollars to assemble vehicles so they can cheat the American tax system and claim the cars are made in America.
I own three American made cars, two Chevrolets and a Dodge. They are all over 6 years old, in the case of the Dodge, nearly 10 years old, all over 70,000 miles and all have been running problem free for the entire time. I’m proud of my American car, and I plan on buying another when I want a new car.
Gary
Good morning, Ryan. Anecdotal works both ways. The last decade before I retired was spent in construction. Everything is diesel. I even hung out with a couple of dudes who build racing/hot rod diesels.
Fact remains that for long term satisfactory performance, the requirements on clean fuel and filtration, injector maintainance, a number of similar factors — even more critical if you’re running a turbo-diesel — you’re going to have to spend more on keeping that critter running properly.
I don’t have a problem with that. It’s something I’d consider. But, step back and take a look at that “average American” consumer — and take a look, say, at a 10-year-old turbo diesel Volvo or Mercedes on the street. If you can see it through the cloud of thick black smoke?
To Ryan Vande Water:
I’m a pretty big VW fan, and yeah TDIs are great, but have you owned your TDI long enough to require a timing belt service, and are you actually doing them on time? The job is amazingly labor intensive, and at a dealership it will probably run you $900+, and the service interval is, I think, something like 20-30k miles. The cheepest guy I know around here gets ~$700. Compare this to, say, my girlfriend’s Focus (Zetec 2.0) which has had no real engine service to speak of in 5 years/80,000 miles, and you are dropping *way* more cash than she is. New plugs and wires ran about $35 when we bought them last year. That’s less than an oil change at most places.
Also, I’m pretty sure VW will now void your warranty if you don’t use Castrol synthetic in a TDI, which is 4x the cost of the standard stuff. Of course you could drop even more on the 15,000 mile oil, but as a ASE certified master technician, and not an oil salesman, I *highly* advise against such a thing. For one thing, there is no such thing as a 15,000 mile filter, making the idea laughable in the first place.
Parts also…holly crap. A diesel injection pump for virtually any diesel VW, from an 82 Rabbit, to a 2004 TDI 150 is pretty much $1000. If you need injectors then you might as well throw the car away since they are hundreds of dollars a piece.
Then there is the cost of fuel additives. Don’t feel like using them? Don’t even try cheeping out unless you want plants growing in your fuel tank. I’m not making this stuff up. There will be actual plant life in your fuel tank…which, as you can imagine, isn’t good for the ultra precision tech in a car like this.
I’m hoping VW’s new generation of TDIs will ditch the belts, and go to a timing chain. That alone would make a huge difference in reducing cost. TDIs are amazing (especially the in the Audi 8) but I really question if they are worth it at all because I just cannot see how the total costs of ownership could possibly be less than it is for my gas GTI (30MPG)
As for the “buy American” guys here. Wake up. You are being played. There is no such thing as an “American corporation”, or a “Japanese corporation”, there are only corporations, pure and simple, and any of them big enough to mass market an automobile would sell your grandmother to a Taiwanese pimp in a second if they could net $5 doing it.
Furthermore, there is no such thing as a totally American, Japanese, or German car anymore, and there hasn’t been in ages. Virtually all of the affordable stuff from VW is built in Mexico, not far from the place where they build affordable Chevy’s. The Pontiac Vibe *is* a Toyota Matrix. Part for part, they are the same car other than badges. There are thousands of Americans working in positions other than final assembly for “foreign” car companies in the US. Cars like the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Nissan 350Z (designed in the US, built in Japan and with a French engine) and many more are designed in California by Americans. Not to mention all the dealers, and techs that keep the stuff on the road. VW’s new minivan will be built in the US by Chrysler. The Chrysler Crossfire *is* a previous generation Mercedes. Almost all light duty GM pick-ups are built in Canada (probably because they don’t have to pay Canadian health insurance). This list could go on, and on, and on. Buying “American” is pure dogma at this point, and has no effect on aiding the American blue color guy in your head. His job was sent to China, or Mexico in the 90s. He’s just as screwed as the Japanese, or German guys that used to build cars for their countries, but probably only have as screwed as the poor Mexican who’s economy virtually all corporations are plundering to a greater extent each day.
Just give it up quasi-patriots. Of course you love your “American” Luminas, and F150s …you never even tried anything else! How would you even have a clue what a good car was? I mean, seriously, anyone who thinks that a new Passat has any competition from Ford, or GM is just…fucking blind, honestly.
…and to be honest, I don’t even like the German stuff half as much as I used too. Its all soft, and option-laden, and cushy now compared to back in the 80s when they built real German cars. Now that the US is everyone’s target market, all the cars are starting to blend together…
…no tilt wheel, no cup holder, close gearing, and a thrashy I4 with mechanical lifters…not THAT”s a kraut burner. 🙂