Telegraph | News | They were suicide bombers . . . and they were British The enemy within. This is going to have a lot of cultural ramifications for the proponents of diversity. This will ignite an interesting deabte throughout a Europe that has welcomed Muslims with open arms. The British have welcomed radicals with open arms too. This is what they get for their generosity. I do not think of this as a war between cultures but a compatibility issue.
The revelations realised the worst fears of police and the Muslim community. It confirmed the men as western Europe’s first suicide bombers and the first Britons to attack their own countrymen with explosives since the ceasefire in Northern Ireland.
Early yesterday, police raided six addresses in West Yorkshire, discovered what is thought to be a bomb factory and arrested a man.
Three raids were on the homes of three of the four men police believe were responsible for the bombs in Tube trains near Liverpool Street, Edgware Road and King’s Cross Underground stations at 8.50am last Thursday and on a bus in Tavistock Square almost an hour later.
Neighbours identified the bomber reported missing by his family as Hasib Hussain, of Holbeck, Leeds. Police say he died on the bus.
Detectives were examining the possibility that he either panicked or changed his mind over the suicide mission and carried his bomb on to the bus. It might have gone off accidentally or he could have set it off, perhaps after being challenged by passengers.
And we know with all of these sorts of activities there are people, still living (usually living well), pulling the strings of these true believers. Watch how fast the English figure it out. They have the names, so they’ll have the puppet masters by the end of next week.
[ahem]
Nichols, McVeigh, Unabomber, the Weather Underground (of the 60s, not the weather site). Domestic terrorism has happened here, and could happen again. AlQaida apparently recruited a native Hispanic for the dirty bomb plan.
John, with all due respect, you must be forgetting that the worst terror act in the US prior to 9/11 was committed by local white Christian boys. And Britain itself went through a period of terror bombings committed by very Catholic Irish guys. And in France and Spain, bombers are Basque, who are not Muslim.
I can’t believe you are falling into this “Muslims are evil” trap. It’s not Muslims, Jews, Hindus or whoever else, just like it’s not Blacks, Asians, Whites who are to blame. To solve a problem, one needs to look for the cause, not a scapegoat.
I’m saying there is a compatibility problem. It doesn’t have to be muslims. The world’s worst arena for terrorism (by the numbers) is Sri Lanka. There you have a compatibility problem too between certain buddhists and hindus. Even when cultures try to merge as in the former Yugoslavia they cannot manage it if the compatibility issues are too great. This usually only occurs when there minority culture begins to get big enough to threaten the majority culture in a non-compatible match-up. Hell breaks loose. This is going to happen in France and there, yes, Muslims will be involved.
Exactly and, I’m interested in reading your response — exactly where do I ever imply that Muslims are evil?
And unlike the thinking in these comments I do not confuse a lone bomber or crazed maniac with organized long-term terrorism done with a political agenda. The Tim McVeigh incident citation is specious. People who bring this up are trying to confuse the issue.
Wake-up, we’re in a religious war. You don’t have to like it, but if you want to live through it you do need to admit it. Compatibility issues? As in they want to kill all non-muslims and we want to continue to draw breath. I’m a true believer Christian, and I don’t want to be forcibly converted muslims or kill them, and I don’t know of any Christians that advocate such actions, this line of action is specifically prohibited within the Holy Bible. The continuing religious war being waged by the muslims doesn’t leave much choice for anyone not willing to be converted or intimidated into do their will. It should be interesting to see how the atheist leftist/Neo-Cons react, they will probably cave in, since they don’t really have any true beliefs of their own
The Hispanic involved in the dirty bomb plot had converted to Islam, was do his little part in their religious war. Right now you the muslims that don’t actively commit such acts, can and probably do act as enablers for the muslims that are willing to do acts of violence. The current conflict in Israel show this same tendency and relationship. Compatibility issues??? I wish I could be so detached, but then it’s my religion that’s threatened, if I was an atheist I guess I could be detached and go which ever way the wind blew.
Okay, so maybe it’s a compatibility problem, then. Sounds like an attempt at “understanding” them, so let’s take a look at it.
I’ve heard it said that all this trouble (whether religious differences or just plain nationalism) has its basis in ancient tribal rivalries, writ large in the modern world. You grow up in a tribe where elders and peers constantly tell you that the other tribe over the hill there is a bunch of liars, murderers and general no-goodniks, that must be fought, and better still, eliminated. Their incompatiblility might be that they have different tattoos, or maybe they wear bones in their noses instead of in their ears. Now, we go and eavesdrop on the the members of that other tribe and find that they’ve been saying pretty much the same thing all along about YOUR TRIBE. It’s really a blood vendetta that started long ago, nobody remembers clearly the actual cause, if there even was one. You’re just one of THEM, that’s all.
E.O. Wilson stated in one of his socio-biology books that aggression in humans “is not a bestial instinct, nor a dark angelic force, but a learned behavior”. The examples he gives for this are a bit weak… (he is admittedly a controversial figure in his trade), but the idea itself is very hopeful, because it implies that something could be done about it, and might be useful in dealing with the “other side” issues that bother us so. Good place to start, anyway. Now what?
I think the trouble in figuring out all this mayhem between Modern Tribes is not coming up with good ideas about incompatibility or causes etc., but getting everyone to *simultaneously* understand each other, and then act on it (presumably by becoming more friendly). It will never work as just a one-way street. If fanatically religious people won’t listen to reason (ever try to argue with one?), I don’t see how anything can be done about that except have to try to exclude them in some way, which I bet will probably happen.
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” – Bertrand Russell
(hope I’m not either of those!)
– JG
to_glow
I don’t know what you have been smoking, but man you better get some help. There isn’t any religious war, unless it is the neo-con / fanatic right wing nut / Rush Limbaugh – Bill O’Rielly crowd wanting to convert everyone to your faith.
You don’t know of anyone wanting to convert others to Christianity? As far as I can remember, every Church I have been in over the last few years have had posted letters from sponsored people in foreign lands doing their best to convert the locals. You might recognize them if I called them MISSIONARIES. And they have been trying to convert other religions for hundreds of years. If you don’t believe that they tried to forcibly convert others, then just ask a Native-American that were forced to attend a Church run school.
And then there is Army Lt. General Boykin. Remember his comment about a Muslim, “I knew my god was bigger than his. I knew that my god was a real god and his was an idol.” The same guy that said “I knew the American Army was managed by narrow minded people”
What dirty bomb plot? And what is a dirty bomb? If there is someone that tried to detonate a “dirty bomb” then why doesn’t the government prosecute him? Is it possible that maybe they don’t have enough evidence so they intend to keep him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life? Gee, that sure doesn’t sound very Christian; or even civilized.
Please tell us how your religion is threatened. Hhhmmm, how many heathen Muslim Palestinians have been killed in the name of God. Your Judeo-Christian God. How many high explosive bombs have Israeli planes dropped on Palestinian apartment buildings? How many Mosques have the Israelis demolished, houses razed, land stolen? Ya, your heroes.
You have a very good point regarding the compatibility issue. I’ve read that Portugal was one of the least racially diverse countries in the world, and actually there hasn’t been too much trouble here.
However, how do you go about creating that compatibility / homogeneity? Can you see the worms creeping out of the can? And once you have homogenous countries maybe you’ll then have replaced terrorism with WAR.
So we have an issue with the way people deal with other people, how they cannot accept others and want to mould the world to their views.
My opinion (not a clue to a solution) is that people haven’t been made to live with zillions of other people. For most of mankind’s history, people lived in tribal groups of 10 to 50, 100 people at most. For hundreds of thousands of years our brains evolved to an environment where you knew the names of *everyone* you met your *entire* life of 15 to 25 years. You always saw the same people. Every single day. Those people knew you, supported you when you were ill or ‘down’… You supported them and the elderly when necessary. Until you died. Life was hard and people stuck together, because that was the ONLY way to survive.
For most of mankind’s history you didn’t meet other tribes, and when you did, it was a brief encounter, a few days, you traded stuff, maybe a few boys or girls changed to the other tribe, and then it was goodbye, and you never saw anyone else for years. If you live to 20 or 25 years, that may mean you never again see anyone else. EVER.
If we want to live in peace with our tribal brain, the only solution would be to drastically reduce mankind’s population to one or two ***MILLION*** in the entire planet Earth. Not sure how you can make that and keep all the luxuries that modern life gives us!
Of course, one day we may all live in VR cocoons that make us believe we live in such a world… Who knows… Who cares…
We must evolve and teach our children to accept difference, because it is increasingly inevitable. We must limit population growth, but more because the planet can’t stand many more of us. It will take many, many generations. And there will be violence and death all along the way. But it has to start, and has already started…
Pat –
From the day the state of Israel was established, the Palestinians and their allies in the arab world have rejected every opportunity to live in peace with the Israelis.
The Oslo Peace Treaty of 1993 resulted in a massive suicide bombing campaign by the Palestinians over the next three years.
The Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 2000 resulted in the “Second Intifadah” and the destruction of Joseph’s tomb in Shechem/Nablus.
And the anticipated pullout from Gaza has resulted in another wave of attempted and successful attacks on Israeli civilians.
And unlike the Palestinian “militants”, Israel does not intentionally target civilians. The Palestinians almost exclusively target civilians, with special emphasis on children and infants.
And the only thing the Palestinian “leadership” has to offer its own people is suicide.