US News Article | Reuters.com — As the case against Karl Rove as a leaker and possibly a geniune traitor bubbles, I’m starting to see interesting parsing that sounds more like the defense of a mob boss.
The White House came under increasing pressure this week to explain Rove’s role in the case after reports that Rove was one of the secret sources who spoke to Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper about Plame and her husband. Rove’s lawyer was quoted as saying his client did not mention Plame by name.
Faced with jail if he did not discuss his sources, Cooper agreed last week to testify in the investigation. New York Times reporter Judith Miller refused to testify about sources she spoke to on the story and was jailed.
That “not mentioning Plame by name” would go like this, “You never know who works for the CIA undercover, do you? Some people in high places, such as, say, the Ambassador to Iraq, might have a wife like that, huh?”
That’s not mentioning her by name is it? I don’t think this is going to blow over like they are hoping. Exactly why the right-wingers aren’t up in arms about this is very strange since this is a total violation of everything they believe. Or is it that this never happened?
It’s like a 4 year old boy throwing something at his sister then claiming with complete honesty that he never touched her. Only two types of people seriously believe such nonsense, the aforementioned four year olds and lawyers.
As a “right-winger” I can say that I personally am very unhappy with Bush’s handling of this. As soon as it was discovered that there was a leak he should have done whatever was necessary, including appointing a special prosecutor if need be, to ferret out the person and have them punished. There is no need for petty revenge, especially when it can backfire like this. Aside from this being just plain wrong, didn’t the politicians learn anything from Nixon? The coverup can be way more damaging than the offense.
Yawn…this stuff doesn’t even come up to any single weeks scandals in the old Clinton White House, and we know how well that stuff worked for the Republicans.
Um. Yes it is.
Stop trying to take things out of context.
John,
I can see you are in heaven with this news. If (only time will tell) it turns out to be true, then I imagine you’ll have Christmas in July! Pllease, however, wipe lather from lips!
Or perhaps the neocons are no longer true conservative as they are generally understood.
I mean really – does anyone with a brain believe the current WH administration is about anything but themselves, big business and religious whackjobs ?
Rove’s lawyer has specifically said that he”s not using that parsing defense. The reason this will blow over is that unless the NYT reporter talks,(or Novak has told the prosecutor different details than what he wrote), then there is no evidence that a crime was committed. Rove has released every reporter he’s talked to from confidentiality, and if Newsweek is to be believed, then he’s done nothing wrong. Furthermore, without the crime, there is no political payback.
Mr. Dvorak,
I would like to write an article about you and would like to request some addition information. If you have time and care please email me at jnhager@gmail.com. And is your real name John C. Dvorak or just a pseudonym?
Thanks,
John Hager
How is this prosecutor involved in so many high-profiles cases? Another poster said he prosecuted the lawyer who was helping her terrorist clients. He has also gone after Judith Miller before. She messed up his prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation with her articles, but he couldn’t get her to give the name of the leaker in his office.
Actions nearly never coincide with beliefs.
Actual, habitual, customary behaviors are what one does.
Beliefs stated in public and avowed in private are what one wants others to think one thinks.
In other words, protest abortion as baby killing, but rally behind war which is young adult killing. Refuse to abort a baby, but put the boy on Ritalin because he stresses you out, while the girl gets bulimia and plastic surgery.
Here’s a petition online.
http://www.votelouise.com/blog/272/send-karl-rove-his-pink-slip
http://votelouise.com/page/petition/rove
Everybody seems to be at everybody elses throat. What a MESS!
I love it.
Like I always say: all politicians are liars pandering to special interests.
Bush Administration is going to crumble worse than Nixon’s or Clinton’s.
What a horrible condition our government is in. I’m just waiting for the guillotine agers to start executing traitors, like the Abu Ghrayib and Gitmo scumbags.
The right-wingers are quiet because they discovered that their emperor is wearing no clothes. That plus they are all stuttering a denial.
This will not end well for the Republican Party. Even if this dies because there is “insufficient evidence to prosecute”, there is too much mud on their faces. Too much of the Republican leadership is falling. Tom Delay has too many ethics problems, Bill Frist is under investigation by the Tennessee Medical Board for making a prognosis based on a few seconds of a doctored film, the administration lied to get us into Iraq and is lying to keep us there, a California Congressman (who heads a military committee) is under investigation for bribery, the issue of appointing extreme Judges and United Nation Ambassadors, and the intrusion into the private life of Terri Shaivo.
>>Yawn…this stuff doesn’t even come up to any single
>>weeks scandals in the old Clinton White House,
Oh, you truly are evil, Sandmich. The “scandals” of the Clinton administration largely involved what Clinton could and could not keep in his pants, not lies to and deception of America on matters of national security. It’s one thing to be a philaderer (that’s pretty rare among politicians, huh?); it’s another to sh*t all over everything the United States is supposed to stand for. Marital fidelity is an honorable trait, but honesty and ethical behavior in RUNNING THE COUNTRY is a mandatory job requirement for POTUS.
But hey, as long as Beer Baby appoints a couple of anti-choice Supreme Court justices, watch for the Radical Right to ignore this little episode of treason as though it had never occurred.
Hey, if we can send thousands of Americans to die in Dumbya’s lie-based trophy war, what’s a little treason among friends? Gosh.
AND I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT THAT RECTANGULAR THING WAS THAT BUSH HAD UNDER HIS JACKET DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. Nobody seems to have been able to explain that one away yet.
AND I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT THAT RECTANGULAR THING WAS THAT BUSH HAD UNDER HIS JACKET DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. Nobody seems to have been able to explain that one away yet.
Damn, I was just thinking about that. 🙂 Why didn’t John repost one of those?
Anyway, reading all the written reports about how “it may not have been a crime” because she hadn’t been stationed outside the country in the last 5-years, made me think that – if used – that line of defense could be Dubya’s version of “it depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is.”
If Bush said he would fire anyone responsible for the leak, he should fire anyone responsible for the leak.
If he said he would fire anyone who committed a crime, then he has room to maneuver.
Wilson lied, Rove exposed him as a liar.
What’s the “treason” here?
It is really funny to see leftwingers who despise the CIA get all huffy about a “covert” CIA agent getting “outed” (allegedly).
But it’s no different than the pro-Viet Cong crowd saying “how DARE you question John Kerry, our war hero?”
Frank, Why does everyone have to be a “left winger” to you? And since when did conservsatives think revealing CIA operatives is a GOOD thing? This is what baffles me.
And Wilson may or may not be a liar. But he didn’t blow anyone’s cover. And he’s not hiding the WMD’s.
Finally, what’s with the pro-Viet Cong stuff? Check the calendar. Go find another blog to annoy.
a “covert” CIA agent getting “outed” (allegedly).
HAHAHAHA
Nice troll, Frank. 🙂
>>Wilson lied, Rove exposed him as a liar.
No, Rove exposed Wilson’s WIFE as an undercover CIA operative. Where I come from, that’s treason. And in time of war (which we are, and will be for the forseeable future, thanks to Dumbya), treason is punishable by death.
Rove should be licking the left-wing commies’ boots in gratitude for just demanding that he be fired instead of EXECUTED.
As to John Kerry, at least he had the balls to go fight before he became anti-war. Unlike the chickenhawk p*ssies in power now, who are using America’s youth as cannon fodder, after doing everything in their power (and their daddies’ power) to stay as far as humanly possible during any conflict of their “fighting” years.
And say, where WAS Dumbya during all that unexplained time when he was MIA flying potted plants around Dixie while John Kerry was fighting in Viet Nam?
Nobody ever explained that one either. Where the hell are all these “left-wing liberal” journalists when you need one??? Have the NY Times and the WA Post and the LA Times been so bought off by the military industrial complex that they don’t follow up on ANY of these scandals??
John –
Why do you assume that when I say “leftwinger” I am referring to you specificallly? I’m just talking about the people who have screamed the loudest on this issue. You do seem a mite defensive.
OK, I’m looking at my calendar. Yes, it is indeed 8 months and 2 weeks after the American electorate rejected Kerry’s fish, er, war stories.
Wilson may not have directly blown anyone’s cover, but if you’re married to a CIA undercover operative, would you be sending a column to the New York Times about the CIA? It’s not clear that Karl Rove leaked anything at this point, and if he didn’t know she was a CIA operative, then he couldn’t have had payback of killing her job as a motive.
Clinton had numerous scandals involving national security. The biggest one was taking campaign money to send weapons to China. The Pentagon’s power to vote contracts in technology sales was transferred to the commerce department, which nowadays is the department of corporate campaign contributions(Ron Brown under Clinton, Don Evans under Bush.) He also had the Energy Department letting Chinese scientists in everywhere at and they were declassifying all sorts of nuclear know-how, while prosecuting Wen Ho Lee with no case.
Mr. Mustard –
This whole charade centers on the claim that Ms. Plame was a “covert” CIA agent.
There has been no conclusive proof of this claim to date – in fact, the first person to make that allegation, was Mr. Wilson himself. Maybe he should be executed for treason?
And don’t allegations of incompetence and nepotism within the CIA concern you in the slightest?
This is all pure conjecture with no basis in fact. Noboby here actually “knows” what the grand jury testimony was, so until Mr. Fitzgerald decides what has happend this is all pure bull. If you do know what the grand jury testimony is and are leaking it here then I am sure the special prosecutor will want to speak with you peronally. You might want a lawyer present.
Gee Frank your fact checking is worthy of Rush “got another pill” Limbaugh.
I mean at least Kerry was in Nam and heard a bullet or two in combat. What did Duhbya hear during Vietnam except the sound of cocaine being blown up his nose in Houston? And how about Delay – no doubt another hero of yours – who skipped Vietnam to do important insecticide sales work in Texas? Or Cheney and Wolfowitz – both “too busy ” by their own admission to serve? I find it interesting that those neocons who DIDN’T see combat always accuse those that did of being cowards.
Kerry got rejected because Rove deliberately split the country over the biggest non-issue of all – gay marriage. The religious right fell for it and decided that it would be better to continue to kill lots of Iraqis and American service men and woman rather than “risk” Kerry getting elected and maybe a gay would marry. Like being gay is a viral infection. “Mother, keep junior away from them fags, he might get fag virus”.
Please go ahead and consider me “left wing”. I use to be a republican until Duhbya and the rest of the neo con Hitler youth invaded the Whitehouse. I’ll stay left wing until that coward in the Whitehouse is gone.
I’m not sure what your point is – Kerry OPPOSES gay marriage.
And even in states where Kerry won, anti-gay marriage amendments were passed by significant majorities.
I use to be a republican until Duhbya and the rest of the neo con Hitler youth invaded the Whitehouse.
Nice try, Moby. But do you really think you’re fooling anyone?
My point is exactly as stated. Rove and the neocons used the gay marriage issue to divide the country and leverage the religious idiots.
The religious waccos didn’t listen to what Kerry said – they were listening to the “don’t be a fag alarm” raised by Rove.
Frank, I think his point is the bitter irony that a members of regime that took the country by storm with its battle cry of “Values” turn out to be the most unethical and value-free lizards ever to slither out of a Texas swamp.
As to your claim that Valerie Plame may not have been a covert CIA operative, where’s the beef? If she were filing paperwork for landscape contractors, don’t you think the Radical Right would have published her job description in a million blogs by now? The very fact that even hard-core Rove supporters seem hard-pressed to come up with a description of exactly what she WAS doing (beyond working in some “classified” context for the CIA) seems to be prima facie evidence that she was, in fact, an undercover CIA operative.
btw, Vietnam Veteran Kerry OPPOSED Dumbya’s ridiculous idea of a Constitutional U.S. amendment banning gay marriage. He may be personally opposed to the idea, but at least he’s smart enough to recognize the proper role of the U.S. government, which is NOT legislating its particular brand of morality for every village and hamlet in the country.