CBS4 Denver: How Far Will The Army Go? —
McSwane contacted his local army recruiting office in Golden with a scenario he created. He told a recruiter that he was a dropout and didn’t have a high school diploma.
“No problem,” the recruiter explained. He suggested that McSwane create a fake diploma from a non-existent school.
McSwane recorded the recruiter saying that on the phone.
“It can be like Faith Hill Baptist School or something — whatever you choose,” the recruiter said.
As instructed, McSwane went on the computer to a Web site and for $200 arranged to have a phony diploma created that certified him as a graduate of Faith Hill Baptist High School, the very name the recruiter suggested. It came complete with a fake grade transcript.
Then there is this…
“I have a problem with drugs,” McSwane said, referring to the conversation he had with the recruiter. “I can’t kick the habit … just marijuana.”
“[The recruiter] said ‘Not a problem,’ just take this detox … he said he would pay half of it … told me where to go.”
Drug testers CBS4 contacted insist it doesn’t work, but the recruiter claimed in another recorded phone conversation that taking “detoxification capsules and liquid” would help McSwane pass the required test
That said, does any of this actually surprise anyone? Grow up people.
via P. McEntee
One bad recruiter.
This is not army policy!
Another viewpoint: Imagine the pressure coming down on military recruiters to supply warm bodies for Quagmire Iraq Nam. IIRC, recruitment is a cushy job sought by career soldiers nearing retirement. The threat of being sent from your safe recruiting center in a suburban shopping mall to the wilds of Baghdad would be quite a motivator, now wouldn’t it? Coupled with the implicit knowledge that they are unlikely to face any penalty for lying, what should we expect a poor recruiter to do?
It may not be policy, but it sure is funny!
“This is not army policy!”
Neither is torture (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
Next it will be trolling bars for some strapping young man, whack him over the head and send him sailing for Shanghai….er, I mean Iraq.
The Lt. Colonel said that there is no pressure on recruiters to meet quotas. That is a LIE. If the Lt. Colonel tells that lie, then he is probably lying about other things too. It would not suprise me if the Lt. Colonel knew about these recruitment practices and either “looked the other way” or condoned such activity.
The results of the “investigation” are predictable: the “lower” enlisted man will be railroaded and the Lt. Colonel will be not be held responsible in any way. He will be promoted for upholding the “honor” of the Army and the Commissioned Officer Corps, and for being the best LIAR that he could be.
C’mon now people. Does one really NEED a high school diploma to point a gun and shoot it? From reading the murders in the local newspaper, seems there are plenty of young people capable of shooting others and THEY don’t have diploma’s either. Today’s army just needs warm bodies with workable limbs. Anything else, like a HS diploma, is pure gravy.
2. No doubt thier is pressure on recruiters to come up with warm bodies.
Our country is in war.
3. No doubt Dvorak’s blog is about fun. a spook on reality. not to be taken too serious.
4.James wink, wink, we are all human. War Brings out the worst in humans. I can’t blame or stand up for the actions of a few soldiers that let thier emotions get the best of them.
Hopefuly you didn’t feel the pain of the world center tumbling down like i did.
Hopefuly one day we will have peace in the world!
5.Good idea what ever it takes…
Richard Brill’s World Trade Center Photographs Published on Cyngus
Firehouse.com
http://www.firehouse.com/hotshots/slideshow/2001/worldtradeattack/1016funerals/photo9.html
Hoo boy. AGAIN with the World Trade Center stuff? Jeez. How many times does it have to be pounded into some peoples’ thick skulls that IRAQ AND SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ATTACKS? Jesuchristo!
The ones who destroyed that edifice and declared war on America were DUBYA’S DINNER DARLINGS, the Saudis. Of course, Baby Bring-It-On is scared of them and their oil, just like he’s scared of the North Koreans and their nukes, and scared of just about everybody else who is a threat to the United States.
PT Barnum was right.
How about that? A troll with politics! On top of self-promotion.
“What ever it takes to take the mad man Bin laden out of power is fine with me.”
Well it is _not_ fine with me.
Have we, as the human race have not learned yet that the end does not necessarily justify the means? Is killing thousands just to make sure you get the ONE you are looking for justified? Is conscription justified? Is putting a gun in your daughter’s hand and sending her, against her will, justified? Is terrorizing a country justified?
When we set our eyes on a goal and make no limits on how we will get there we often become the worst that humanity has to offer. If I truly want something and I will truly do anything to get it then it means I will kill you, and anyone else that stands in my way. That is not a position a society should be in.
There is a reason that society has laws. A group of people has gotten together and said that there are some things you _cannot_ do, no matter what.
I suggest a society decide where it stands on acceptable military/government/foreign policy behavior and then work _within_ those morals. Just stating that “anything” is OK is a huge mistake.
To expound a little on “Ns” comments.
When we stoop to their level, then we become as bad as they are. When we, as a society, lose our dignity by acting as the terrorists do (did) then we are actually worse because we know better.
Hitting back in anger is something 5 year olds excel at. Adults should know better. Adults act coolly, with reason and purpose.
***
With the recruiter. There were TWO Sergeants. The second Sergeant followed through on what the first had promised after he had been transferred. The ease of which this happened suggests to me that this is a much more common issue then the Army would like us to believe.
At the same time the Army is in desperate need of warm bodies, they are planning on reducing the length of duty from West Point graduates. That is if they play football !!! If you don’t play football, you will be committed for Five years. If you do play football, then you will be committed for Two years with another six in the reserves while playing on an NFL team.
I read with interest your blog on Army recruiting.
As a former Army recruiter I would have to say is there are bad apples in every barrel. Instead of saying, “How far will the Army go?” it should
have been aptly named, “How far will this recruiter go?”.
Junk like this happens periodically and when a recruiter is caught, it is
a deathblow to their careers and hurts the reputation of honest recruiters.
I went on recruiting duty in 1999 and spent 3 years as a detailed
recruiter. The station I was in was a large station that previously had several recruiters relieved for impropriety. The new guys had it hard in there was no mentoring from good experienced recruiters so we made some mistakes but by no means were the actions described in the blog/news article ever condoned or winked at.
The pressures of being a recruiter are incredible. One of three things happens: they rise to the occasion, they fail or they cheat. I think that can be said of any demanding profession.
Unfortunately the cheaters give everyone a bad name and is a spit in the face to those personnel that honestly try and then fail. The cheaters are ultimately a disservice to this country and the American taxpayer.
Couple of responses for the posts:
Recruiting is not a cushy assignment. My normal work day was 8 in the morning till 8 in the evening Monday through Friday. I worked Saturdays 3 of the 4 weekends and then used Sundays to drive applicants to a hotel so they could take their physical on a Monday morning. Cush my arse.
There is A LOT of pressure to meet the “mission”.
The Army isn’t just about shooting guns. I think you would be surprised regarding the amount of material that today’s Soldiers have to learn, memorize and retain. Infantry bubbas have to know ALOT of material off the top of thier heads to prevent people from getting killed.
Ray
SFC, USA
25W4V
Geese, Thanks Ed I almost had them on the self promotion gig if you didn’t drop the lead shoe. Politics always adds a nice twist…
Agreed Sadam probably had nothing to do with 9/11 atacks however
Sadam is a sick b@stard and needed to taken out for the in human way he treated people under his rule.
N What do you suggest?
Whats the solution?
A group of people DID get together and did do the things you _cannot_ do, no matter what.
The killed people All kinds of people!
they blew up buildings
they killed several thousand innocent human beings
and are planning more attacks.
Perhaps some bleeding heart liberal faggots will be attacked next.
The United states is fighting a very real war against a very real army that wants us all dead including the liberal fagouts that want to play patty cake
meet over a cup of tea and cookies.
I agree with Richard.
Yippy, a Man with brass balls stepping up to the plate!
Richard and K-Thom
It appears from your posts that you are both in dire need of a reality adjustment. The theme of this post is that two recruiters schemed to allow an unfit person to enlist.
I am not a psychoanalyst, but I seriously wonder if your immature minds were weaned far too soon from mother’s milk. You guys are sick whackos in a dangerous world. Would either of you be Jeff Gannon in disguise?
Sadam Hussan did not have anything to do with 9/11. No one disagrees that he is / was a dangerous tyrant. But in order to get him, Bush crawled into bed with several other dangerous tyrants and ignored even more dangerous ones. Did you notice that while Bush was preoccupied with Iraq, North Korea now has several nuclear weapons? Have you heard about the genocide in Darfur?
There was nothing to be gained by invading Iraq. The country’s military had been decimated by the Gulf War and consistent bombing by American and British aircraft. The southern and northern areas of the country were not under Saddam’s control. United Nations Inspectors doubted the presence of WMDs.
Instead, Bush diverts troops, intelligence agents, focus, and energy from the TERRORISTS in Afghanistan to clobber a weak dictator. He went into Iraq, ignoring the advice of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs that more troops were needed. As expected, the troops rolled over the Iraqis and kept on going. After the troops moved on, the local government offices were systematically looted / destroyed of any and all evidence of criminal activity by the Bathists. The Iraqi troops were allowed to slip away into the civilian population where today they practice their roadside bombing techniques.
The end result of all this is that bin Laden is still alive. Two thousand Americans and Allied troops have died and an unknown number have bee been permanently disabled. Estimates are upwards of 50,000 Iraqis have been killed and an unknown number permanently disabled WITHOUT ANY SAFETY NET. There are not enough Allied troops or trained Iraqi Police / Army to police the country.
In both Afganistan and Iraq there are no “real” standing Armies. Nor have there been since 9/11. Armed thugs do not make an Army.
If K-Thom admires a “man” with “brass balls” then that speaks volumes about you. I admire people with honesty, integrity, intelligence, and a sense of justice. Don’t brass balls stretch your underwear, or are they even big enough?
Since stealing the Presidency in 2000, Bush and his minions have consistently lied to Americans. The truth has not deterred him at all. Consequences of his actions have been glossed over and twisted into something all Americans should be embarrassed about.
John, sorry about the flaming, but these guys are too far off base.
To “Richard” and “N” – Not to worry. Dumbya isn’t going to to “whatever it takes” to get rid of Bin Laden. Unlikely that he is (or ever was) interested in the real terrorists in this debacle. Just more of his craven posturing and deceptive politics, designed to make money for his friends and toady up to the flakes on the radical right fringe. Bin Laden, Kim Jung Il, the House of Saud….most everyone who is a real threat to America is as safe as a bug in a rug. “Mission Accomplished”!!!
Hold on Pat!
I don’t agree that we should enlist anyone. I agree with what Ray said.
I understand why acts like that happen during times of war.
I am not a war hawk!
I am not an anti semite. If anything, I am for the liberation of the people in that region.
Freedom Baby!
I feel thier is a real army of bad guys that want us dead!
I don’t think its normal for a person to blow him or her self up so they can spend eternity with thier god.
Please don’t stick up for Sadam!
I don’t know if Bush lied to us or not hes our president and
I support him.
I am honesty,
I have integrity, intelligence, and a sense of justice just take a different stance obout this than you.
.
What happened here is ridiculous.
But for one poster to say that recruiting is a cushy job sought after by about to retire ….is even more ridiculous.
Very few ever want to be a recruiter. I hate it with all my being. I am cussed at, kicked out of houses, looked down upon. All this by the people who have the rights they do because of all of those like me who have died defending them.
If you do not have the balls to stand up for you country, then sit down and shut up!!!
There are pressures beyond belief that most would not begin to understand. Supposed someone took you away from your desk job and threw you out as a door to door salesman. Then threatened your retirement and your families livelihood everyday if you couldn’t sell a vacuum cleaner.
Just suppose you worked 14 hours a day trying to sell em. Knocking on doors, putting out fliers, etc. Everyone you saw you asked them about buying this vacuum cleaner. But noone wanted to buy it.
Just supposed that everyday the news was saying that this vacuum cleaner was responsible for killing someone and that this vacuum cleaner that you familes’ food depends on was dangerous. No matter that the vacuum cleaner actually accidently killed someone by electricution who used it improperly. The media portrayed it in a way that would sell the most.
Sell that. Yeah I have 19 years in the Army and sought out this crap.
I am a soldier, no one is more professional than I. I am a leader of soldiers.
Oh yeah, recruiters are not pressured at all, they are not punished either. If you fail to put people in, those 14 hours days turn into 15-16 hours days for that traing the LTC talked about.
I have been in the Army for 12 years as a Mechanic. I have been a drill instructor and am now working as a Recruiter. As a drill instructor I have seen what happens when a recruiter dose the wrong think, we asked the soldiers when they got to basic training if their recriuters promised them anything or lied to them. Some said that the recruiter did lie, but most of the soldiers lied to their recruiter to get into the Army. Now that I am a recuiter I see that the ones who cannot join the Army are willing to do anything to join. To prevent disqulified people from joining we do a background check on them. If a recruiter dose something wrong “they will get caught”.
To let you know why a High School diploma is required: if you take the time to complete school and even some college you will complete your time in the Army. Drop outs will continue to drop out.
The Army requires smart self motivated people who are willing to become leaders, that is why we train from day one to be a leader.
The Army also helps with college by giving some one from $36,144 to $70,000 as well as 100% TA while on active duty. Some even get a $20,000 enlistment bonus. The Army will not just give these benifts to anyone, it is like any job that requires certain qualifications. Plus the Army is not only infantry; there are over 200 jobs in the Army, check it out on goarmy.com. Why should a drop out get the same benifits as a grad?
Just a little statement about Sadom and 9/11- If you ignore a problem it dosent go away it only gets worse. That is how 9/11 happen and how many Iragi people died at the hands of Sadom. Do some research from 1989-1991.
How many Companys will try to help you get hired without a GED or even care about drug testing now: or when hired will pay 100% medical/dental/training/schooling and all…. If people would get their heads out of their ass, only reason anyone is complaining is because we are in a war again. We give all these FREE benefits when no war,,,but as soon as we ask them to do their job….others get mad. The 17 yr old walked into the office….and was worked around his lack of a person to be given a job…with the US Army, with all these benefits…Bet, this kid will be working at Burger King….or will get early SS for some mishap his family has in-bred him into….. How many recruiters/headhunters: will bend over backwards (eat a bunch bananas so you can pass the weight qualifications)….When all is given free: people are fine….when asked to perform….people complain… Not all, for I have 100% respect for anyone that offers to be in the Military: or Police: and does their job when needed. BUT, to be in the Military and we are not at war….TDY’s…fun in the sun….Their young family’s are happy…..Someone should be standing up for the fact…that these people are helping you…..BARB