Technology News Article | Dead Cartridges Plague User
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – A Georgia woman has sued Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , claiming the ink cartridges for their printers are secretly programed to expire on a certain date, in some cases rendering them useless before they are even installed in a printer.
The suit filed in Santa Clara Superior Court in northern California last Thursday seeks to represent anyone in the United States who purchased an HP inkjet printer since Feb. 2001. HP is the world’s No. 1 computer printer maker.
An HP spokesman said the company does not comment on pending litigation.
via E. Campbell
I had heard the chip is programmed to render the cartridge unusable even if plenty of ink remained because the company claimed that the ink itself degrades over time. I always suspected it had more to do with selling more cartridges.
All IT companies this days seem to try to screw their custommers with dishonest products. These days we have CDs and DVDs with artificial limitations, software and hardware with artificial limitations, etc. Then when people turn to P2P networks, piracy and other ways to bypass those limitations they act surprised.
Here in Brazil the government is starting a programm to bring cheap computers and Internet to poor people. The government expected to offer both Linux and Windows as options in those boxes, but MS tried to push that crappy XP “starter edition”. Thankfully the government bashed that attempt to sell crap to the poor people.
This kind of behavior explains why Brazil is one of the leaders in usage of free software in both government and businesses.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Epson uses a counter chip in their cartridges, so the ink cartridge “knows” it is full…this makes refilling them complicated.
I always thought printers were like the proverbial free razor, where the blades cost a bundle.
“HP ink cartridges use a chip technology to sense when they are low on ink and advise the user to make a change. But the suit claims those chips also shut down the cartridges at a predetermined date regardless of whether they are empty.”
Now wouldn’t this be a hoot if true! You are an Industry Figure, John. Flush out some more information for us. If it is true, I can almost guess HP’s defense: Inks deteriorate over time, so the company is actually protecting the consumer from using bad ink. There would be a grain of truth in the argument; however, it would not explain why there could not simply be a pop-up window advising that the ink is out of date and giving the consumer the option of printing anyway. It is, after all, ink he has paid for, and only he should decide when it is time to throw it away.
This really wouldn’t surprise me if true even though it sounds more like an Epson style trick, not HP. Ink cartridges are a big cash cow now a days.
She must have called HP etc I would hope before pursuing a lawsuit without merit, but then again . . .
If the ink degrades over time, how stable is it when it dries? And if not stable when wet, why not simply put a note on the package, no good after such and such a time?
Dying to find out . . .
I was peripherally involved with another lawsuit against HP regarding their printers. HP sold printers which included cartridges. But those cartridges were only half full. Considering they cost at retail about 30 bucks, that added 15 bucks to a price to the printer.
HP argued that the printer came with “economy sized” printer cartridges. But I knew that was bullshit as you could not buy those “economy sized” cartridges at retail or via OEM channels. I had the judge I work for ask HP’s attorney’, “Exactly where can you buy those economy sized cartridges?” The response was honest, “Um, you can’t.”
Because the box never said the cartridges were “economy” sized, and because a consumer would have no way of knowing that the cartridges were “economy” sized, the judge determined that HP committed a material misrepresentation. The case, which was a class action, ended up settling after that.
It appears that HP didn’t learn its lesson. It is continuing to rip off its own customers.
I thought people knew this (two year old article: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9220). HP is like AOL, a company out to screw its customers the best it can, and fervently hope that one day it will share AOL’s fate. Buy a canon printer, their cartridges don’t play the games of epson or HP.
Even more nefarious than this is something I read in the March 2005 issue of Maximum PC (sorry John):
YOUR PRINTER CAN RAT YOU OUT
“If you’re using a color laser printer, the device is secretly imprinting an almost invisible code on each document you print. This code can be used to trace the document right back to your doorstep. Teeny, tiny, yellow dots are scattered all over your documents, but you’ll need a UV light or blue LED to reveal them. This imprinting has been going on for a long time, but was only recently revealed to consumers.”
How can you doubt John’s “police state” when stuff like this glares right at you? I wonder if they are laughing at us too?
When I worked retail we sold nearly all printers “below cost”. When I first saw their software that showed how much ink there was in the cartridge I thought “There’s no way they can know that.” Perhaps I was right. I love HPs system that replaces the print head along with the cartridge though.
Next we’ll need freshness dates on our printer cartriges – just like the “use or freeze before” dates on food.
My wife works retail, where they sell some food-stuffs, and they are constantly having to check the dates on packages – and mark-down items nearing the “expiration” date.
I don’t mind HP (or anyone else) date-limiting their products if they inform us before we buy the product – and give us a way to check the date.
Why should it be any different from a loaf of bread, or a carton of milk?
I think people are overlooking the obvious here:
Printer cartiridges expire. There is an expiration date marked *very clearly* on the outside of the box, before you open the cartridge. HP prints the date on the side in a yellow box using an inkjet printer, for each batch with the batch code.
Obviously no-one is looking at it.
The inks do degrade over time. There are latex based chemicals in the inks that decompose when exposed to heat. I had some older, pre-chip cartridges that I bought in bulk. When I went to use the second color cartridge it only printed in yellow, because the other colours had ‘gunked’ up. Even after repeated cleaning they wouldn’t work for more than a moment. Sure enough, the cartridge was well past it’s expiry date.
I don’t see a problem with HP helping it’s users by avoiding the frustatration of the over-looked, expired cartridge problem. Ask any ink refiller business; they will tell you that the inks expire with age and they have a ‘shelf-life’.
“I don’t mind HP (or anyone else) date-limiting their products if they inform us before we buy the product – and give us a way to check the date. Why should it be any different from a loaf of bread, or a carton of milk? ” –mikiev
Actually HP already does this; an “install before” date is stamped on the box. That fact does not, however, justify the alleged practice.
Actually HP already does this; an “install before” date is stamped on the box. That fact does not, however, justify the alleged practice. – K.B.
Shows the last time I looked at a cartridge box, before tearing it open. 🙂
Problem is, they are printing the date on the box, but not informing us that this is a “drop dead” date – and not just an advisory about the potential for degraded printing.
As per Monty Python’s “Whizzo” candy company skit: “I hardly think that’s good enough! There should be a large, red label stating – ‘Warning: Lark’s vomit!’ ”
“Problem is, they are printing the date on the box, but not informing us that this is a “drop dead” date – and not just an advisory about the potential for degraded printing.” –mikiev
Absolutely right! “Use by” and “expiration” dates on food are for information, and it is up to the consumer to use his common sense. The same should be true for ink cartridges.
I have done a test on a HP 3500 colour printer. I have removed the chip from a so called “empty” catridge and put it on a full catridge. The printer informed me to replace the catridge. I have done another test. I printed the supplies status page. It reported Black – 6000, Cyan-3822, Magenta-3822, Yellow-3822. I then printed a single black dot on a page and requested the Supplies status page again with the following results. Black – 5999, Cyan-3821, Magenta-3821, Yellow-3821. Even though no colour was printed it automatically reduced the count on all catridges. HP, your comments please!!!!!
Hannes, that is fascinating stuff ! 🙂
I ran into this issue w/ my HP psc 2110xi printer just a short time ago. After hearing about the timer chip idea, I called HP support and asked point blank if it was true. The support person said “That is absolutely not true!”. A HP online help chat person said almost the same thing (within the bounds of non-engllish translation). Since the response was so emphatic, I assume the person had been instructed to say that. Is HP just willing to lie outright, even in the face of lawsuits? Or is someting more/else going on?
Think about a HP ink cartridge that has a warranty. Bad ink cartridge, color bad, light ink which appears watery, what-ever, they give you another one. That’s the way a warranty works. You buy a recycled ink cartridge, with no HP warranty. It may work momentarily, but then you get these same messages, remove cartridge. Why should my printer shut down after purchasing a recycled ink cartridge? But then if you buy an HP ink cartridge, your printer is up and running again. Or until that time HP thinks you have printed long enough, even if you have plenty of ink. HP forces you, according to HP predetermined usage, in order for your printer to work, to buy their ink cartridges, or HP will shut your printer down.
Don’t focus on the ink cartridge, focus on the fact HP, and other printer manufacturers, stop your printer from working, because of some silly game they are playing of cheating customers before the ink runs out, or wrong ink standards, or what-ever. I say, go ahead send these stupid messages, but don’t stop my printer from working. This is anti-competitive, and in violation of anti-trust laws.
To be perfectly clear
Hewlett Packard recycles their ink cartridges by promoting that HP cartridges be returned for recycling, using a self addressed, stamped envelope. Allowing HP, through their “refurbishing and reselling” effort to conserve resources, using the various recycling facilities of manufacturers around the world contracted by HP. Thus, the mere fact that there also are other recyclers available to refurbish, and recycle ink cartridges, but except for lower cost, and the free choice of the consumer, HP has restricted the consumer the full use, and the operation of HP printers.
Smith and Roberson’s Business Law, ninth edition. West Publishing. Chapter 43; ANTITRUST.
“Characterizing a type of restraint as per se illegal therefore has a significant effect on the prosecution of an antitrust suit. In such a case, the plaintiff need only show that the type of restraint occurred, she does not need to prove that the restraint limited competition…..Tying arrangements. A tying arrangement occurs when the seller of a product, service, or intangible (the “tying” product) conditions its sale on the buyers purchasing a second product, service, or intangible (the “tied” product) from the seller….Because tying arrangements limit buyers’ freedom of choice and may exclude competitors, the law closely scrutinizes such agreements.”
Hewlett Packard has, unbeknownst to customers who purchased HP printers (tying product), tied as a condition, the purchase of new HP ink cartridges (tied product), or HP recycled ink cartridges, through the use illegal anti-competitive consumer practices.
After all, what are we talking about, it’s a ball point pen refill morphed into a printer ink cartridge. It’s a recycled auto part! Again, I say Hewlett Packard, and the rest of the conspirators, play your silly games by cheating consumers on ink cost, and supplies. I say go ahead! But don’t stop me from the use of my printer.