Anonymous says:

Btw, Vegans are idiots. Animals and plants are all made out of matter. Deeming some lifeforms edible and others not is silly.

Dead plants and dead meat have something in common, neither of them mind being eaten.

Would vegans prefer that the cows that have been consumed never were alive to begin with — because if we didn’t consume the cows, they would be on the endangered species list [well — if it weren’t for the milk and the leather too.]

But, never fear, vegans! The world you want will come. The future will view us as primitives for eating animals. In the future, bacteria will be “engineered” to produce proteins in mass and there will synthetic and delicious foods that do not require 4 years of feeding a cow to produce.

Eating animals is wrong in the long run not because animals are harmed (all life dies) but because raising an animal to produce protein is wasteful when bacteria can do it 100 times faster.

(We live in zero sum universe, harming an animal requires production of one. The harming is the bad, the production is the good. Eliminate the harming and the production goes away too. Ironic. When we stop eating cows, there will be no cows. What will the cows think of that?????)

Thomas says:

You sure that wasn’t, “How to spot a looney”?

Jack Olmsted says:

speaking of footwear…john,

how would you like to try out the nerdest footwear on the planet?
it’s like the fucking future of footwear…

they are made
overseas
but it is OK
because the president of the manufacturer sits on the board of the american distribution company.

the only problem…is all the styles are made with animal skin.
even the sandles.

hmmm. i don’t think they are “eco-friendly” either
but they will save your back, legs and feet walking Ce-Bit or CES.

they have a big huge spring in the sole that absorbs body impact with the pavement.

i set-up blogs for independent dealers…one of them is in san jose.

if you are interested, drop me a note and i’ll set you up with a pair.

John C. Dvorak says:

Ferragamo, of course.

Swami Atma says:

Hi John,

First of all let me tell you that I have been reading your columns for over 15 years and you are still my favorite computer columnist by far.

I enjoy reading your frank opinions on computers and life even those with which I don’t agree such as this one.

Well, I’m not a vegan but I am vegetarian for over 20 years and gasp, I am a swami! The funny thing is I used to have the same view about vegetarians as you and the above commentators do.

I still wear leather shoes, a bit reluctantly, although I must confess that I do wear birkenstock sandals. 😉

Anyway, I felt compelled to respond to some of the comments which are nothing short of idiotic.

“Another way to spot a Vegan, small undersized children because the idiots don�t realize the vegan diet is incredibly detrimental to the development of children. ”

Firstly it’s factually untrue and secondly it’s quite amuzing to read considering the real issue of children obesity in modern America. I just read last week while in Europe that European kids who are eating more and more like their US counterparts, are following suit and getting more and more obese as well.
Please tell us what you think of the “supersize me” movie.
I have met so many healthy and radiant vegetarian kids that the above myth is laughable.

“Btw, Vegans are idiots. Animals and plants are all made out of matter. Deeming some lifeforms edible and others not is silly. ”

So are dogs and humans. Is it silly to condemn the eating of either? How about venimous mushrooms? Same matter so same effect on health?

“Would vegans prefer that the cows that have been consumed never were alive to begin with � because if we didn�t consume the cows, they would be on the endangered species list ”

They should be very grateful to us. Just like the families of Iraqi slaughtered (bombed) kids and civilians should be grateful to the US.

“Eating animals is wrong in the long run not because animals are harmed (all life dies) ”

The same reader, “anonymous”, has a wonderful logic indeed. Should I kill anybody I don’t like since they will die anyway. So I guess it does not matter.

“(We live in zero sum universe, harming an animal requires production of one. The harming is the bad, the production is the good. Eliminate the harming and the production goes away too. Ironic. When we stop eating cows, there will be no cows. What will the cows think of that?????) ”

I guess cows, like other animals, will never find a way to procreate without the humans.

If anyone is truly interested in knowing the repercussions of eating meat, please read “Diet for a new America” by John Robbins.

“the only problem�is all the styles are made with animal skin.
even the sandles.”

That’s true for his brand but not for others and you can find many alternative sandals, even leather-free Nike sneakers for that matter.

“Since a good deal of Vegans, not all mind you, are of the Haight Asbury �the 60s are not dead� hippie, �no-need-for-baths� sort, you need not even spot a vegan, you can just smell them coming.”

Quite funny but again meat eaters do smell much worth than non-meat eaters. Times have changed. There are millions of vegetarians in the US, most of them much healthier and happier than the rest of the population, with excellent hygiene 🙂 and less prone to racism, to promote and defend useless wars, etc.

I felt like defending the vegetarian community today. I hope you will decide to publish this alternate opinion.

Please forgive my English mistakes as I speak English as a second language.

Anyway, please keep up all the great columns and blogs.

Renewed Resource says:

Um, did I miss something, or are the tree huggers now ADVOCATING the use of petrochemicals in place of renewable resources?

meetsy says:

I’m sorry…Swami, but if I were starving..you’d look pretty tasty to me. We aren’t vegetarian by nature, just by spoiled brat indulgence.
Nice long post…but, still..man is just about as vegetarian as chimps…..and if you look at the research…not only do they love bugs, but they are not above eating a good chunk of MEAT now and then….
As do I.
and plastic shoes, even if kosher, just look stupid, make my feet sweat and get blisters, and…honestly, what else should we do with cow skins…..???? Works better in cold climates better than strapping a banana leaf to your foot with an ivy vine…..

Anonymous says:

Hey Swami or Tsunami or whatever your name is ….

1. We bred cows to big and defenseless. If we stop eating cows, there will be no reason to breed them. When have you seen a wild cow?

2. No, it is very stupid to kill human beings as a rule of thumb. Particularly ones with GEDs, diplomas, a skilled trade or something else to contribute to the world. Now, humans that are criminals that harm others and can’t be easily rehabilitated … that’s another story. I don’t advocate humans eating humans — that’s risky due to health reasons — instead of executing “bad” humans, just feed ’em to the dogs. (What the difference between a plant or bacteria digesting a dead human vs. an animal eating a dead human — nothing!)

annonmyss says:

wow just to let you know im a vegan, have great shoes, and is not short so STFU!!!!!!!!!!!11

The roots of racism says:

Program on the emergence of civilization.

“14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.”
Favor.
And disfavor.

They point out Africans’ attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it’s applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.

The roots of racism are not of this earth.

Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals.

The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.

Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:

1. MUCK – perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as “god”
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management –
3. Mafia (evil) aliens – runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere (“On planets where they approved evil.”)

Then we come to terrestrial management:

4. Chinese/egyptians – this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans – they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia – the real-world interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician – Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.

Survival of the favored.

Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1986 James Bond View to a Kill – 1989 San Fransisco Loma Prieta earthquake.

Journal: 10 composition books + 39 megs of text files

John Nichols says:

As a vegan, I can safely say that I am, as a father, 6.2 foot in height and muscles to dream for. My children tower over the other children at school.

luke says:

I tried ‘eco-friendly’ footwear…they’re rubbish, fell apart in the rain. Then went to Danner boots and they’re brilliant! Last me years these will, in any climate! Jesus ate meat, good enough for me…and even the Muslims agree with that! If you wanna survive on weeds, good luck to you, but don’t preach at me for eating cow, fish and chicken….right, I’m off to feed my Venus Fly trap.

Luke

BOB says:

Vegans are tight. Im tight. Jesus didnt eat meat.

BigBlueMarbleInSpace says:

I know this is an old discussion, but in case anyone finds this site, as I just did, a few clarifications must be made.

First, the following statement is in error:

“The law makes no reference to the external body or the clothing people should wear. Kosher people bath in waters filled with non Kosher creatures such as lobsters and Shrimp.
Oddly enough
Many orthodox Jews are un shaven and dirty.

Kosher law is really just a guideline to follow to live a healthier life. It has nothing to do with apearence or clothing a person should wear.

This claim made by Vegan is just a really bad marketing gimic.”

Actually, Jewish law DOES have stipulations about clothing. The one that is probably relevant to the shoe issue is that of “shaatnez.” Shaatnez deals with the mixture of linen and wool together in the same cloth or garment. This mixture is prohibited in Jewish law. Many Orthodox Jews make use of “shaatnez labs” which will test clothing to make sure it does not contain the prohibited mixture. This issue sometimes comes up in odd places – such as garments not made of of wool or linen, but might use a wool or linen stiffener (such as in a lapel). Since many shoes have a cloth liner (perhaps made of linen), the kosher consumer would want to be sure that the linen does not have wool in it. Of course, since it is vegan, it shouldn’t have wool in it. Perhaps the vendor could have said “shaatnez free”, but that might look too strange to most customers who would then be calling them to ask what it meant. The rules of prohibited mixtures are mentioned in Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:5 and 22:9-11.

As for “many orthodox Jews are un shaven and dirty,” having a beard does not denote uncleanliness (for example, Abraham Lincoln). One could also say many non-Jews are unshaven and dirty. You can say “many ______ are _______” about almost anything for any group of people , so the point of that statement eludes me.

I’ve never heard of people bathing in water filled with shrimp and lobster. Maybe the poster means that when they swim in the ocean they are swiming in the same water that non-kosher creatures live in? The rules about shellfish relate to eating them (or not eating them, rather), not to swimming with them. Dogs, rabbits, pigs, etc. are not kosher to eat but it’s not forbidden to walk around in the same air that they breathe or have them as pets.

Kosher laws have nothing to do with health. Orthodox Jews believe they were given by God for spiritual benefit. If God gave them for health reasons they would read more along the lines of: eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, watch your salt intake, don’t eat too many fatty foods, make sure to get enough excercise, etc.

Second, they do make vegan footwear that is breathable. Not all vegan shoes are made of hot and sweaty plastic. I’ve also seen a number of them that look just like leather, so they don’t all look stupid.

Third, as for the following:
“Since a good deal of Vegans, not all mind you, are of the Haight Asbury ?the 60s are not dead? hippie, ?no-need-for-baths? sort, you need not even spot a vegan, you can just smell them coming.”

The vegetarian and vegan, movements were not started by the hippies. The vegetarian (and the health food) movement in the U.S. was actually started by fundamentalist Christians in the late 1800s. For a short but very influential time, some of these groups advocated healthy eating as a way of caring for the body, which they viewed as “the temple of the soul.” In their view, God gave humans a body to house the soul, so we must take the best care possible of it. This included healthy eating. Also, the idea floated at the time was that meat induced wanton sexual appetites, so in an attempt to curb sexual desire, they advocated a vegetarian diet. The vegetarian position was probably dropped when they realized what any vegetarian will tell you: sexual desire has nothing to do with eating meat. However, out of all of that, names like Post and Kellog came to the fore as providers of grains for these spiritual an health inclined individuals. And, out of that grew the cereal industry that we know of today.

As for the hippie connection. That’s more of a Hollywood/television stereotype/story device/fantasy type thing. I’ve run into quite a few counter-culture tye-dye wearing long-haired hippie types and VERY few of them were vegetarian, or even exhibited concerns for animal rights. Most of the vegetarians I have met are regular people who don’t look or dress any different than most others. There are probably more hardcore punks who are vegetarian or vegan than hippies who are. There is, after all, the vegan hardcore movement, but I’ve never heard of a vegan jam band movement (yes, I know, not all hippies listen to jam band music, but jam band festivals seem to draw more hippie types (or wannabe hippies) than other types).

Also, if you read any books on the Haigh-Ashbury music scene, you will note that hardly any of the people involved were vegetarians. True, some of them are vegetarians now, but interestingly enough, back during the height of the hippie era, they weren’t. A number of them also displayed an apalling lack of common sense when it came to the welfare of their pets. Don’t forget the frequent use of fur and buckskin in the hippie wardrobe – not vegan at all. So, they weren’t exactly PETA types.

While it may be true that interest in vegetarianism was revived in the 60s and 70s, it’s not all due to the hippies (the vast majority of whom WERE NOT and ARE NOT vegetarians). Newer studies of nutrition and food safety, consumer concern over food additives and preservatives, etc. contributed to the revival of both the health food movement and vegetarianism.

Shanus says:

Best point of the column goes to….Hana.