Birmingham News – December 07, 2006 via Overlawyered.com:
Felicia Reynolds, the mother of former Hoover High School student Ricky Reynolds, has filed a $5 million claim against the city of Hoover, saying her son would not have fatally stabbed classmate Sean Joyner had her pleas for help been heeded.
Ricky Reynolds is in a Louisiana prison serving a 20-year manslaughter sentence for the November 2002 incident at the high school. In her claim, filed Monday, Felicia Reynolds says she repeatedly informed school officials that her son was being harassed and threatened by Joyner, 17. Just before the stabbing, Joyner had returned to Hoover High from alternative school for an incident unrelated to Reynolds.
School officials knew Joyner had a violent reputation, the claim says.
“If the school officials and administrators had acted diligently and responsibly to the Reynolds’ complaint, (Ricky) Reynolds would never have, out of fear for his life, used what he perceived to be reasonable force to repel an attack by student Sean Joyner for bumping into his student girl friend Malikah Satcher,” the claim says. “This callous neglect by City of Hoover employees to this child was a failure of the basic responsibilities these employees were hired to accomplish.”
“I find it bizarre that somebody expects the city to prevent their son from murdering someone between classes in the halls of Hoover High School,” said Veitch
“I find it bizarre that somebody expects the city to prevent their son from murdering someone between classes in the halls of Hoover High School,” said Veitch
Exactly. Anybody who expects the police to do anything other than fill out paperwork after the fact is seriously deluded. At least he’s being honest.
#1, you might want to reread the article. The man quoted is not a police official. The police can’t very well prevent an act if they have no idea that the behavior leading up to it is going on in the first place. Besides, this kid stabbed his victim in the back after the victim bumped into his girlfriend and they “had words.” I find the self-defense argument is lacking in merit when the victim was walking away and was stabbed in the back!
Money, if awarded, will ___________________________(please help me complete the sentence. (no Pun)
And the reason nothing was done about the known violence of Joyner was… 1) laziness, 2) boys will be boys, 3) blacks were involved, 4) potential lawsuit from Joyner’s parents
#3: You reread the article. “Nalls testified that he told them the matter would be taken care of and that he reported the matter to the police officer assigned to the school, but that he was unaware of any action taken.”
Uncle Dave, School resource Police Officers don’t have a lot of say in placement or segregation of students in the school. Unless a crime is committed, school officials have the final say in these matters. In regards to the harassment and threats, the mother could have filled JV complaints against the other student, but it would have been a he said, he said type situation and it would not have gotten the bully removed from the school. Only action by the school officials might have prevented this.
This underscores the real problem with violence in public education. I recently had to pull my child out of public schools due to a like (though lesser) situation.
For several years there has been this boy that has been harassing my son in school and after. I’d spoke to the school several times about it and the family itself more than once to no avail. Finally, this year the “bully” threw a jacket over my son’s head and proceeded to beat him about the head while covered, and this happened in the middle of Math! My son defended himself as a natural response; and the school suspends them both, despite the fact that the instructor’s report cites that my son was only acting in self defense.
Schools are inept at the three basic tasks we entrust them with: Protect, Educate and Discipline our children while they are in their care. Since we pulled our son out of public school; my wife and I have been tag-team homeschooling him and we find out how much they aren’t even teaching them.
They are too afraid of lawsuits and politics too make concrete decisions and frankly they whole thing needs to be scrapped in favor of something else. I’m not paying inflated property taxes so a bunch of incompetents can get one of my kids killed.
#6. I’d agree with a lawsuit if a student was getting harassed at school by students, if the school was notified and said they’d take care of it, and if the student was harassed so badly that he was injured.
However, I don’t see how the school could be liable in this instance. The school was warned that the decedent was violent towards the murderer. It had no knowledge that the kid who murdered had such a violent propensity.
All of the comments above are ignoring the fact that either a jury ruled or he copped to a plea that he was, in fact, NOT just defending himself.
#9 Why should the school be responsible. The SCOTUS has ruled that police aren’t.
“…out of fear for his life, used what he perceived to be reasonable force to repel an attack by student Sean Joyner for bumping into his student girl friend Malikah Satcher”
Let me just say that out loud to see if it sounds reasonable…
“for bumping into his student girl friend”
Wait… Maybe Robert K. Gordon, the staff writer from the Birmingham News is a no talent hack… Let me correct his clumsey prose…
“for bumping into his girlfriend”
no… that can’t be… let me try again…
“for bumping into his girlfriend”
Look… I often bemoan the Monday morning quarterbacking on these cases. But even I have trouble right here in this one phrase… “for bumping into his girlfriend”… So someone out there wants me to believe that stabbing a guy fatally in the back is a reasonable response to some dude bumping into a girlfriend?
This mother, I suppose, needs to take her grief somewhere, and in her mind, I suppose her baby was just pushed too far and did what he had to do, but that’s her delusion and I cannot fathom taking a life over a lunch line faux pas.
On the other hand, had this trangression been allowed, what would be next? Wound Sean have called Ricky a name? Would Sean have shot a spitwad at Ricky? Would Sean have smudged Ricky’s Nikes? Who knows how far it would go.
OFTLO- Hey bro. dont you know nuthin. bout respect ! Man was dissed.
That’s right folks… the school must do everything for the public. It is a wonder that babies aren’t simply dropped off at the school doors a day after birth.
Exactly when are people willing to take responsibility for their own actions?
#12… Great sentence structure.
This story can’t be real. Why would any attorney even take this case seriously? Why would you sue a city for not preventing someone to kill someone else?
– #8 Schools are inept at the three basic
– tasks we entrust them with: Protect,
– Educate and Discipline our children while
– they are in their care.
Expecting a school to discipline children is silly. We have removed almost all their ability to do this. Their only choices for punishment are assign more work, or send them home to their parents. More work will get ignored by a student who doesn’t care, and being sent home isn’t punishment, it is a vacation.
When are US parents going to stop being idiots and realize that humans tend to learn quickest if something triggers the survival instinct.
Perhaps we should give schools back the ability to spank the children.
Perhaps we should give schools the ability to cite parents for their there child repeatedly behaves badly. Perhaps if this Joyner’s parents had been forced to do some community service perhaps they would have done something to discipline the child and get him to straighten up.
How long will we go in the US before we realize our current methods of punishment are not effective, and revert back to the methods of the past.
I have to admit, I kind of agree with her on this…
Although, I don’t think they can be blamed for murder, but I can tell you first hand, at least in Canada, kids that slip through the cracks are rarely helped from the system. I have a friend who has watched his son go through hell and basically get kicked out of his highschool. Yes, the father has the responsibility, he has done everything he’s been told to do but it hasn’t helped. I can tell you, the kid has some real problems, that NO parent could have prevented or know how to handle without PROFESSIONAL assistance. And every attempt at getting help/assistance has gone unheard. The only time they got involved was when the bad stuff hits the fan, they put out the “fire” and move onto something else… but by then, it’s too late to prevent and they aren’t doing anything to help the child’s future. They let them continue to dig holes.
Unfortunately, kids don’t come with user manuals, nor can you expect people to be able to know how to handle their kids (some is learned behaviour, but a lot is circumstances beyond their control). In every case, professional staff (read: School staff, programs, structure) should be making sure these kids don’t get left behind or slotted into silos. This kid I’m talking about, is one smart cookie and he needs to be taken care of. Yes, it is the responsiblity of the parents, but it is OUR responsibility to ensure that no one is left behind.
In this case, I hope she doesn’t get a penny (other than laywer fees) and that something good comes of this. Else, the professionals in the system (read lawyers) are just part of the problem. Sometimes, you have to sue to make changes. It’s the dumbest thing to do, but sometimes, it’s all you can do.
#15 Perhaps we should give schools back the ability to spank the children.
No.
No one hits my child.
HOWEVER teachers are afraid to even touch children. They shouldn’t be. They should not be afraid to grab a child or teenager’s arm and pull them away from a situation. They should not be afraid to strike back when attacked by a child big enough to hurt them or others.
It bothers me when parents can over-rule discipline by bitching. When I was in high school one of the best teachers I’ve ever known was fired because too many football players were made ineligable to play because they were failing her classes.
For those asking where were the parent’s while this was happening? Good question. I imagine they were either at work or at home looking after their other children. I know the parents couldn’t be there, only authorized people are allowed in the school.
So where were the adults entrusted with looking after Reynolds and Joyner during school hours?
There was a situation. The authorities were made aware of it. It was an apparent continuation of a history already perpetuated by the deceased. The school didn’t do anything. The cop didn’t do anything. They all allowed an already dangerous situation to occur.
Judging from the sentence, it sure appears the kid was black and the Judge is white. 20 years to a kid for manslaughter with a self defense rational?
Judging from the sentence, it sure appears the kid was black and the Judge is white. 20 years to a kid for manslaughter with a self defense rational?
Very good Mr Wizard, I figured that out by the picture at the top of the blog. As for your assumption that the sentence was racially motivated, how do you know this was the suspect’s first run in with the law. You assume he was a model student and that he could only do such a thing because he was provoked. Maybe there were other factors considered by the judge besides just his race.
“Maybe there were other factors considered by the judge besides just his race.”
No. If black and white people are involved, it is always about race. Just ask Jesse Jackson. He will agree.
Steve
I was gonna throw in a racist comment to balance it all out, but someone beat me to it 🙁 (and it was a good one too)…
Woot fox, reporting on what america cares about most.
I went to Simmons middle school and one year of Hoover high with Sean. He was a bully and made my life hell. I knew Ricky too, we had gym together last period in 9th grade.. He was a real normal well liked kid.
For those asking why the attorney would take the case: It’s simple. The risk/benefit analysis is so amazingly huge, he basically loses nothing in this case. The family has to the servicing fee and the other court fees that they might russle up. Then the attorney spends somewhere between 5 – 50 hours working, over a period of about a year, on discovery and research (assuming, of course, the case isn’t simply dismissed, in which case the attorney lost, maybe, an hour of work) until they get to summary judgment, at which point the attorney either loses and the case goes away or he wins and he’ll get a nice settlement in the $1 million range. (The city would never let this case go to trial if they fail on summary judgment.) He’s probably working on contingency, for either 30 – 40%, off the top. That’s about $350,000. $350,000, for working two or three hours a week for the past year.
If Hoover school officials would have done their job when it was reported to them all of this would have been avoided. That’s why we have a chain of command. No one wants to accept they were wrong but the facts are simple the mother reported it the school did nothing so now that a law suit is filed you all want to say all those nasty comments but put yourself in her situation……And if it was one of your little caucasian students that Joyner was messing with than you have been on top of it like beef tips on hot rice …..no pun intended just wonder about little John Jacob or Harry it could have been your child and she could be leaving smart ass remarks about you…..
Well, while everyone is on here giving there opinions, let me give you all some facts. One Sean told the boy to leave his sister alone. (The female was like a sister to him). Two, Sean was stabbed in his heart. Three, Ricky had set all of this up because he didn’t like him. Four Sean had never did anything to Ricky and that can be confirmed in the trasnscripts of the trial. Five Joyner was not a bad kid, yes he made mistakes, but KILL HIM! Ricky was not some squeaky clean kid himself. You people act like you have been angels your entire life. While you are sitting passing judgement on Sean, let me tell you the wonderful things about him. He was very protective of his family and friends, thats what got him killed. He never layed a hand on Ricky, but because Sean was much bigger than he was that whack butt statement “I was scared for my life” came up. Sean fed the hungry, in the choir, a good brother, uncle, and son. Yeah he made mistakes, his mother never said he was perfect just as Ricky stupid mother tried to make her son out to be. But if you look back in Ricky’s past he was kicked out of three schools. Ricky was not the one on trial in court, Sean was!
Well, while everyone is on here giving there opinions, let me give you all some facts. One Sean told the boy to leave his sister alone. (The female was like a sister to him). Two, Sean was stabbed in his heart. Three, Ricky had set all of this up because he didn’t like him. Four Sean had never did anything to Ricky and that can be confirmed in the trasnscripts of the trial. Five Joyner was not a bad kid, yes he made mistakes, but KILL HIM! Ricky was not some squeaky clean kid himself. You people act like you have been angels your entire life. While you are sitting passing judgement on Sean, let me tell you the wonderful things about him. He was very protective of his family and friends, thats what got him killed. He never layed a hand on Ricky, but because Sean was much bigger than he was that whack butt statement “I was scared for my life” came up. Sean fed the hungry, in the choir, a good brother, uncle, and son. Yeah he made mistakes, his mother never said he was perfect just as Ricky stupid mother tried to make her son out to be. But if you look back in Ricky’s past he was kicked out of three schools. Ricky was not the one on trial in court, Sean was! You can’t bring up Ricky’s past, just Sean’s. Now that’s some BS!
FOR THE RECORD RICKY REYNOLDS WAS NEVER KICKED OUT OF ANY SCHOOLS, THAT WAS RICKY FIRST FIGHT THAT I AM EVEN AWARE OF.
NYNA, PLEASE BE CAREFUL ABOUT SLANDERING A PERSON NAME, YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW. YOU MAY BE HURT BY THE LOSS OF YOUR FRIEND, HOWEVER I TOO WILL MOURN THE DEATH OF SEAN JOYNER FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. I TRIED DESPARETLY TO PREVENT ANY HARM TO MY CHILD AS WELL AS SEAN AND EVERYONE TURNED THEIR HEADS. THEY KILLED TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE , WHEN AN OUNCE OF PREVENTION WOULD HAVE SAVED THEM BOTH.
ONE, RICKY REYNOLDS WAS AN EXCELLENT STUDENT, MANY OF THE TEACHERS, AND STUDENTS SUPPORTED HIM. SEVERAL OF HIS TEACHERS STILL WRITE HIM. TWO RICKY WAS AND STILL IS VERY REMORSEFULL OF WHAT HAPPEND AND HAS APOLOGIZED TO SEAN MOTHER FACE TO FACE,HE ALSO TOLD HER THAT HE DID NOT GO TO SCHOOL TO TAKE HER SON LIFE THAT DAY. HOWEVER HE WAS AFRAID FOR HIS LIFE. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT AN IMPACT THIS HAS CAUSED FOR BOTH FAMILIES.
I FORGIVE YOU FOR MAKING THESE UNTRUE STATEMENTS ABOUT MY SON.
I sat next to Ricky in english class, first period, after which the stabbing took place. Sean was a bully, straight up. He tried to fight me, a skinny white boy, over a basketball our freshman year. What most people dont know is that Sean shot at a few of Ricky’s friends the weekend before this happened. Ricky was one of the nicest people I’ve met. A real Do-anything-for-you kind of guy. I don’t agree with the behavior he exhibited that day, dont get me wrong. But when Sean was nothing but bullying, badgering him and others constantly, and the school was warned about it repeatedly, what can you expect a teenager to do? I knew quite a few people that were terrified of Sean and espacially knowing about the attempted shooting the prior weekend I would have been myself.
I’m sorry, I knew Sean personally and the things that you people are saying about him are not true. We went to church together and hung out a lot and all the BS about him bullying Ricky is just that: BULL! I am sorry that his mother is hurting, but at least Ricky is still alive. Sean’s mother has to live with the fact that she will never see or hear her son’s voice again. That’s what bothers me. I don’t really care to bash Ricky because I don’t know or care to know him. All that is important is that he took a life. He snuffed out a young life because of what? He was scared? He wanted revenge? I’m sorry but BOTH of those reasons didn’t give him cause to do what he did. I just don’t see why this is such a big issue anymore (reasons why Ricky did it). He’s in prison and hopefully will stay there until he has paid some part of ruining a family’s life and taking a good person from this earth.
Not sure who this is and the things they are saying about SEAN ARE TRUE HE WAS A BONIFIED BULLY, I lived next door to him went to school with sean, malikah, dee(the one that died a year earlier during football practice)and several others and they made my middle school years HELL I hated simmons and hoover so much I had my mom Ask my aunt if I could live with her in sylacauga to finish school so I know what ricky endured he was probably tortured daily as was I , sean even beat me up once when I git of the bus for no reason he was way bigger than me and MEAN he made me suicidal and have to see a therapist so all the people siding with sean the truth is he was mean and not saying he deserved to die but who knows what sean was capable of doing to ricky cause im a living witness.
schools are stupid. they only care about the money. they could care less about teaching and disciplining kids. I hate how America is today. its like the adults are scared of the kids
I love and miss my brother Ricky so much. The Lord has a plan for you.