I personally think a democracy needs conscription, as a volunteer force is a dangerous step away from a mercenary one. I myself volunteered for reasons more for getting away from home and seeing the world as for defending our Cold-War interests in Europe. But at least I knew what I was getting into. To lie to recruits about their chances of ending up in a war zone is despicable.
ABC News and New York affiliate WABC equipped students with hidden video cameras before they visited 10 Army recruitment offices in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.
“Nobody is going over to Iraq anymore?” one student asks a recruiter.
“No, we’re bringing people back,” he replies.
“We’re not at war. War ended a long time ago,” another recruiter says.
I would laugh at the kid’s naivete, but remember that our mainstream news shows us jack shit very little about this war. But let’s not lie to them, okay?
Hmm..government lying? Bogus promises to get people to enlist? Stop the presses!
Coming next on Dvorak Uncensored:
Some lawyers are Crooked. An Investigation!
Special report: Milk Sours when you leave it out!
Many church members are not attending church!
Some gasoline is off-spec!
Cans of beans are not actually full of beans.
Government workers are not always doing their job correctly.
Bosses actually get angry at whitleblowers — a scandal.
Having been the most decorated soldier from his home state in WW2 and coming from a well-known political family, a friend of mine was asked to run for political office a few years after that war.
The politicos dropped him like a hot potato when he said he would only run if the party program included mandatory conscription to be made part of any declaration of war. No exemptions other than health.
I think it’s a sound idea, today — and, of course, it would never get past the chickenhawks in Congress and the White House.
“The first casualty when war comes is truth.”.
–U.S. Senator Hiram W. Johnson, in 1917
Some things never change (sigh).
I find it interesting how the only people in favor of forced conscription are often the same people who most loudly protest when the government intrudes on “personal freedom.”
There’s a word for that kind of logical dissonance…but it escapes me at the moment. 😉
So John Kerry was right. Smart peope aren’t going to Iraq.
This is nothing new. Recruiters have always lied to recruits. What is odd is how stupid the recruiters was, any idiot could check up on this. Any one falling for this was very challenged mentally.
#2 – I agree – any declaration of war should be accompanied by even-handed conscription.
Unfortunately, even-handed conscription is a concept like tax reform. It’ll never happen. War will always victimize the poor and ignorant, and the tax structure will always bleed the middle class while the rich loudly whine and quietly buy politicians to get themselves an even better deal.
As for declarations of war – when’s the last time we actyually had one of those? Since when did we need one of those to send the poor and the ignorant into combat? Somebody’s got to test the new gadgets and justify huge expenditures for more.
So let’s get this straight. if I study hard and do well in school, I can accomplish anything. If I don’t, and listen to what the recruiters are telling me, I’ll end up stuck in Iraq. So that’s what John Kerry meant?
“ignorance is bliss” – untill you get shot. then its hell
There are a LOT of stupid people in the military. Not all of them, but a LOT. Ask me why I didn’t reenlist all those years ago…
Democracy does NOT need conscription. The USA, for the vast majority of its history including the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War, and the First Gulf War, has relied upon a volunteer military. The UK has done the same. Nothing wrong with a “mercenary” force – that is how the US conquered the frontier and the UK built its empire.
It is simply appalling to take citizens involuntarily out of their lives to fight in some ill-conceived military adventure. The draft should never be instituted unless absolutely necessary, such as during the Civil War or World War 2.
Oh, and it looks like the Guard and Reserves are going to take it on the chin again. A December Suprise is in the works:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15555730/
Bad enough that those guys are going to be hauled back to that fool’s errand, to conscript unwilling civillians would be even worse.
It always amazes me, Republicans, complain loudest about ‘political correctness’, but the minute any perceived enemy of theirs says anything that can be twisted and taken out of context, they get all whiny and cry that the statement is unfair.
This this morning, I counted at least eight different prominant republicans bashing veterans and active duty military for not having the correct opinion on the Iraq war.
But Kery’s statment, that is the problem. Lol.
As for studing hard or finding yourself in Iraq… That is a good Idea for third graders, because kids in the Third grade right now, will die in Iraq.
And if you still didn’t get the joke, had Kerry said It correctly, he was call you war supporters idiots.
In the end I do have to agree with you current crop of Kerry bashers. People who make verbal gaffs are unqualified to be president. Lol.
It’s part of a new philosophy to recruit only complete morons to die in Iraq.
RBG
Iraq or no Iraq… when you sign up for the military, you should expect and be prepared for the worst… a bloody war zone. The military is not your five star hotel, never was, never will be!
And John, those are some shocking headlines (#1).
# 13…greg a………I’ll play Mr. Fusion here, since he only does it with those who oppose his views. Could you name those 8 Republicans and show us the links to those comments? I won’t call you any names like he does to those who oppose him and don’t put in links… 🙂
4,
There is a significant difference between requiring public service (let’s use the German model of military or public health) and allowing the government to monitor your phone calls and web searches without a warrant.
You can do better than that, it wasn’t even a good red herring, much less a decent straw-man argument.
We live in the greatest country in the world. But there is a price for living here and enjoying the freedom.
There could be mandatory conscription for everyone. Conscripts get a choice of serving the military or serving the country in other ways.
Conscripts would serve a fixed period of time of service to the nation. Those who successfully complete conscription get benefits like a free college education. Those who are not conscripts don’t get free education. It’s really no different than the benefits received by soldiers serving in the military.
By not forcing people into conscription, we give them a choice… they pay their own way.
It boils down to two branches of service: the military and a domestic version of the peace corps. Those in the domestic peace coprs get different kinds of service… anything from cleaning streets to working with kids or in hospitals. Those with the ability get better jobs.
Those who don’t want college could get training for jobs that require extra education.
I hate paying taxes because the government wastes much of my money. But I’m willing to pay extra taxes for education. I’m also willing to pay more taxes for skilled teachers and cops.
The conscript gets to choose his slave master. Yippie! Liberty means never having to say, ‘Yessa Massa.”
#16, joshua, it must really be burning your butt to see all your Republican friends going down to defeat. So much so that you would insist Greg post links to what are obviously TV and or radio ads. We’ll see who enjoys their coffee the most on Wednesday morning.
20. Four to five Senate seats and 30 House seats in each midterm election is the average loss in two midterm elections for the party of the president. Let’s see if the liberals disappoint again.
18. The problem with conscription is that war protests lose a bit of their edge when they are being fought by volunteers.
RBG
The US had conscription all throughout Vietnam, and some poor millions ended up dead. Conscription just lowers the cost of maintaining an armed force. It’s a little frightening how fast and how much are people willing to stand up and salute whenever the flag is waved.
The only way the US could get enough troops to fight right now would be to raise pay and benefits enough to be worthwhile. Equally, the only way to remove the power of war from the hand of government is to make it as expensive as possible. Advocate, educate, stir trouble…
#4 – I find it interesting how the only people in favor of forced conscription are often the same people who most loudly protest when the government intrudes on “personal freedom.”
There’s a word for that kind of logical dissonance…but it escapes me at the moment. 😉
Comment by malren — 11/5/2006 @ 1:15 pm
I find it interesting that I am agreeing with… well… you… Not to put to fine a point on it.
I’d point out though that personal freedom is both a liberal and conservative value.
How can anybody possibly advocate the draft?! It’s coercion and a blatant use of government force. 18-20 yr olds are the life blood of the country. So you would like all of these impressionable, young people filled with hope and limitless oppurtunity so uncle sam can teach them to kill? Somehow, I think their time would be better spent in a University learning important things, like engineering, philosophy, the arts, foreign cultures, calculus, computer science, etc. But no, some nut jobs still think (especially the ones in control) think that the most important aspect of our Nation’s “Greatness” is having the largest standing army in the world.
Ya, nothing says democracy like tearing citizens from their lives to kill foreigners.
Anybody else think that America only needs enough troops to defend America?