I heard this guy on NPR at lunchtime. Interesting argument. As he put it, a mother legally can carry a handgun for protection all day long, but when she comes to campus for a night class, she can’t. After Virginia Tech, you have to wonder what would have happened there if students had been armed.
Va. Tech Killings Underscore Guns-on-Campus Campaign
Some college students are pushing for their schools to allow them to carry guns on campus.
They say they should have the right to protect themselves in the event of a shooting like the one that left 33 people dead at Virginia Tech.
Andrew Dysart, a George Mason University senior, has organized a chapter of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.
The group hopes to convince legislators to overturn a Virginia law that allows universities to prohibit students, faculty and staff members with gun permits from carrying their weapons on campus.
Dysart says that the students at Tech should have had a chance to defend themselves.
Virginia law allows schools to decide whether to allow students with concealed-weapons permits to carry their guns on campus.
One state school, Blue Ridge Community College, does allow it. Schools cannot prohibit non-students or other outsiders from carrying weapons onto campuses if they have legal permits.
As for Hitler’s popularity, perhaps if he hadn’t been able to disarm the public, there would have been more resistance internally. Instead, as we saw in the movie Uprising, it wasn’t until Warsaw that the Jews fought back. More of this in Germany might have kept him within his own country and saved tens of millions. Plus he stayed out of Switzerland because of their private guns.
243—Mike==if you used the search function on your browser and typed in “assault” you would easily find my response at post #100.
Its good to see consistency of mind at work. You are as astute on this gun issue, its correlatives and proofs, as you are with global warming.
Good thing the skills to eat are instinctual.
#241 Bobbo “Pure guess here—Chinese would rather have rice in their bowls than freedom to mass protest their government?”
Spot on Bobbo!
There just isn’t much to complain about when there is such dynamic changes occurring month to month – and you have a job and making money. Of course that is in the cities as the countryside is much different.
However compared to the live they had before under Mao life is good. Where there are complaints they are usually levelled at private companies or corrupt government officials. An important point I want to make is that the official policy is to improve and develop unlike other regimes where no one cared. It takes time, China has 1,000,000,000 more people than America with 70% what you would consider country side folks.
This is another reason why China cannot jump in with general free elections as the change is too sudden for the populous who have lived under Mao’s government. Corruption is a problem as it is not to mention what would happen in a ‘free’ election. Think Bush, Florida.
With respect to change one cannot compare China to Russia as Russia was a superpower, technically advanced while China was a backward society isolated from the world after only abandoning their dynastic ruling class after 3500 years. One may be tempted to point out that Shanghai was the Paris of the Orient in the 20’s – 30’s but that is one city.
Because China was so behind the rest of the world in everything is the reason for Mao’s ‘Great Leap Forward” to industrialize on a scale one could not imagine. This was one of Mao’s greatest failures as the Chinese government now admits as at least 20 million people starved to death.
So yes Bobbo – Chinese people are pretty much happy with what they are getting and that is something that seems many Americans cannot accept.
Why? Jealousy comes to my mind as Chinese seem to be getting the American dream that many American feel has been taken away from them – and not by the Chinese but by Americans. 😉
Cheers
#245 “Plus he (Hitler) stayed out of Switzerland because of their private guns.”
Nope! Where else can you stash the cash? That’s the only reason.
If you care to dig into the concept of eugenics (Race purity) Hitler was impressed with what America had accomplished in this field (WTF?)and that further supported what he was doing along these lines.
Careful that can does contain worms…. 😉
Cheers
#241
> Likewise, many would rather have
> their guns and stay behind their
> gated walls than live in a society
> without guns where you could walk
> down the cities streets at night without one.
In many cities with very strictest gun laws, it is substantially less safe to walk down the streets at night than those with looser gun laws. Would you rather walk down the streets of DC or Tucson at night?
#248
Money was a motivating reason but it was not the only reason. The Swiss adamantly declared neutrality in the war. They felt no reservation at helping both the Germans and the Allies. In addition, Switzerland is very densely populated. The German Army would have been forced to go house-to-house in order to subdue them. The Swiss also made it clear to the Nazis that if they were invaded, they would destroy all passes into Italy and any infrastructure they could get to before the Germans. The German high command recommended against invasion to Hitler on the basis that cost of the invasion would be disproportionate to the gain. Thus, that the populace was heavily armed and trained *did* factor into their ability to avoid invasion.
#249 You filled in the details beautifully about Switzerland! Thomas, seems you are a fellow WWII buff.
The Swiss armed population model is not a valid argument for an armed US populous.
Cheers
> 244
Actually, I get my opinions from the Chinese people I’ve met who have left that country and live over here now.
How many Americans have immigrated to China?
#251 “Actually, I get my opinions from the Chinese people I’ve met who have left that country and live over here now.”
I can completely understand that as the China they left at that time was exactly like you said it is. I used 20 years as a measurement but it would be more correct to lust look at the last 10-5 years – completely changed!
My first time to China was in 1992, then in 1993-94, and then 2001 to date with 11 months in 2005 in MN. When I compare the China in 1993 to 2001 totally different and from 2001 to today different again!
My wife is Chinese and when we were in the States in 2005 she of course made lots of Chinese friends who have immigrated and their view of China was date stamped to the time they left.
So many could not believe what my wife was telling them about how China has changed. Other Chinese immigrants in America came from villages in China and as I pointed out change there is much slower than in the cities.
“How many Americans have immigrated to China?”
You would be amazed in how many! Especially from Britain and Europe. A good friend who is British commented that after a few years in China it is impossible to return back home – the mediocrity and negative life style is killing. I had to agree with him based on my experience of returning to the states for 11 months in 2005.
He is certainly not one of these foreigners who is tuned in to being Chinese, ‘going native’ if you will and neither am I. There is this reverse culture shock after living in China for a certain period of time. There is a dynamic feeling which is all around that isn’t back home.
China is like a fast moving train, if you get off for a while and come back the train you knew has already gone. After 11 months out of China when we came back there were so many changes it seemed that we came back to another China. Granted we live in Shanghai but other cities are on the rise and it is amazing.
When I left America in 1983 (to Australia) I had a time stamp of America in 1983 and used that to compare to other countries.
Well the 1983 America is long gone! I was wrong in all my comparisons with other countries as I would say “In America la de da de da…”
Was I wrong!! That was the 1983 America!! In 1983 The FTC had teeth, Cable had no commercials, it was easy to get a job, buying a house was affordable and easy, health insurance isn’t like your mortgage payment, cars and gas were cheap and people drank un-flavoured coffee! (Where did this French Vanilla Hazelnut shit come from?) Now it seems many people don’t even drink coffee its all that energy drink crap. See my point?
If you never left America for any length of time you wouldn’t notice the change – or more correct to say slide. 😉
Cheers
>252: I can completely understand that as the China they left at that
>time was exactly like you said it is. I used 20 years as a ‘
>measurement but it would be more correct to lust look at the last 10-
>5 years – completely changed!
Perhaps. However, the ones I know over here still have family that wishes they could leave, too, due to various issues/reasons. Perhaps it’s the one child law (there’s some freedom for you).
Besides: Perception is Reality.
What you _say_ is going on is one guy over there, who could very well be a governement stooge trying to sway public opinion.
Or you could be a radical trying to throw off government suspicion for planning a Tianamen Square Anniversary Rally — knowing they are reading your emails.
Or you could be a Google employee trying to make China look like good guys so _they_ won’t consistently be looked at in a bad light for breaking under pressure when told to censor all their “bad” Chinese news.
When I can talk to someone without those kinds of restraints, I tend to believe them. I don’t know who you are are. You’re just some guy on the web. And I might be some governement stooge trying to flush out pro-gun radicals for the FBI. You just don’t know 🙂
I may live in America, but I have visited perhaps 20 different countries around the world. I feel I have a pretty good idea about what’s out there.
I will give you guys one thing — you’re tough on crime. Executing corporate exe’s because their products kill people, now that’s law enforcement!
Our lax gun control laws have enabled dealers to flood urban areas with. How can making it easier for, say, malicious crack kingpins to get their hands on guns be a step in the right direction? I argue in my op-ed on the Huffington Posttoday that while the way to get to the root of most social problems is to provide economic opportunity, it’s foolish to repeal gun control laws. Check it out hereand please share your comments.
*Some* gun laws like background checks make sense. Some gun laws like the “assault” weapon ban are the height of stupidity. “Assault” rifle is a cooked up term by the media. It basically bans a host of weapons because they look scary. Mechanically, there is absolutely no difference between an “assault” rifle and a regular rifle. It is the equivalent of banning cars because they look fast. Corvettes are banned but that Pinto with a 454 Hemi, that’s ok.
> But three years ago gun crime rates
> started creeping back up, jumping nearly
> 50 percent between 2004 and 2005. Think
> this might have something to do with
> the fact that Congress allowed the ban
> in the Brady Law on semiautomatic assault
> weapons to expire in September 2004?
What utter dribble. I noticed that you conveniently omitted any shred of evidence that would show that the entire increase in deaths was specifically and exclusively caused by the weapons on the ban list.
>256: “Assault Weapon” anal drippage.
I have a baseball bat in my house with “Assault Weapon” engraved in the side. If I use it to assault someone, it is a weapon — an Assault Weapon.
#257 Take your “Assault Weapon” to the mall, campus, school and see how many people can be killed…
See the point?
Cheers
In my view this ‘gun issue’ is not unlike a cold war – with a “us’ and a “them”.
And just like the previous cold war the only way to end it is to eliminate the threat of one of the two. Russia collapsed and was no longer an equal threat.
Arming the “us” means the “them” does so too and it escalates just as the previous cold war – MAD – Mutually Assured Destruction.
Is that how we want to live? I don’t think so. Something must be altered for this ‘cold war’ to be resolved.
Cheers
>258 Take your “Assault Weapon” to the mall, campus, school and
> see how many people can be killed…
I was HOPING someone would bring this up 🙂
The answer is “probably the same number as if everybody had a pistol. Maybe one or two.”
Which brings us back to the original question of the entire thread.
Besides, what you consider an assault weapon is only responsible for about 0.2% of all violent crime and 1% of gun crimes since the 70s. Usually, it is a bomb or arson. According this website (which I agree may be as bogus as any other) law enforcement homicides are responsible for up to 10%.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html
Here is some more interesting stats:
Chicago Murders in 2004
Numbers percent of total Remark
448 100.0%
313 69.9% Handgun
36 8.0% stabbing
25 5.6% hands/feet
7 1.6% baseball bat
4 0.9% Rifle
2 0.5% shotgun
http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/04MurderRpt.pdf
And this isn’t a cold war. The anti-gun block wishes to impose their will on the pro-gun block. The pro-gun block does not wish to do so. We simply believe that if you don’t want a gun, fine, don’t buy one. But don’t you dare tell me not to buy one.
If so many people hold that other countries are so much safer than the US, then perhaps they should move there. For those of you currently there, please stay.
#259
First, the Cold War did not end by a peaceful resolution between the two sides; it ended by one side going bankrupt. Second, it should be noted that both Russia and the US are still armed with many nuclear weapons. Last, the Cold War worked on the principle of balance of power. Once both sides were equally armed, they then came to agreements on controlling further armament. Although a comparison to the Cold War is a weak analogy IMO, if we were to make the comparison to gun ownership, we have an imbalance of power. One side, the criminals, is substantially better armed than the other: the victims. If police departments were instantaneously available in all situations, perhaps the need for citizens to protect themselves would not exist but that is not reality and will likely never be reality. For the most part, the best that police departments can achieve is to be proactive on occasion but mostly reactive.
guns should not be allowed on campus, period.
ok lets see who in the hell is going to rob grandma when she has a sawed off twelve gage in the back set compared to a grandma who has a cane to beat off criminals. im sure glad that America didnt have gun laws when we were made a country cause damn that would mean that all of are milita wouldnt have guns. hmm i guess we are just lucky that they were able to have the right to bear arms. this whole topic is stupid. if you dont like guns dont get a permit. i will and we will just see who is in the ground if some criminal who doesnt want witnesses wants an extra hundred dollars. cause no matter how many laws are passed there will still be criminals with guns. the same applies that even though we have laws that there should not be any illegal drugs, im pretty sure i can find someone in every town that will be selling drugs.
Of course not! This is crazy, why would you allow people to carry guns in public places unless you’re licensed to, you shouldn’t especially in schools.