Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says terrorists will continue to look for U.S. vulnerabilities, making tighter security standards necessary. “[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,” Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on “Charlie Rose.”
“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”
Napolitano isn’t the only one who’s suggested that advanced scanning machines could be used in places beyond airports.Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, introduced legislation this past September that would authorize testing of body scanners at some federal buildings. Napolitano’s comments were in response to the question: “What will they [terrorists] be thinking in the future?” She gave no details about how soon the public could see changes in security or about what additional safety measures the DHS was entertaining.
It seems the No Agenda crew has called another one. As for Napolitano……after you big guy!
Why in the hell would they do something like this on trains? A suicide bomber on a train will significantly less damage to a train than he would on a plane. He would take out maybe one car out of 100, and the train would keep on moving.
No terrorist in their right mind would even consider a train bomb when it is so much easier to just drop a bomb on the tracks ahead of a train to cause a derailment.
Why waste tons of resources scanning train passengers, when the security of the tracks are at stake?
@bobbo:
“Of course NO ONE likes what is going on. I don’t like it either. But before I emote like a little girl, I meet my own challenge==what would be a better alternative?”
Your argument here is really disingenuous garbage. The TSA naked body scanners and exercises in molestation are worthless security theatre and should be stopped. Me not being able to come up with an effective airport screening method does not magically make the TSA’s methods work.
Imagine if someone comes up to you and starts kicking you because he is bored. By your logic, you shouldn’t ask him to stop until you can think of something else he can do that is more exiting.
I look at all the miles of unwatched tracks that trains ride over and quickly come to a deep understanding as to how having TSA strip search train passengers makes us all safe.
On 9/11 a small group of criminals committed a horrific crime.
The only feature of the post 9/11 environment that I can see is a measure by which the terrorists won.
I am fine with scanners and searches. If they are accompanied with probable cause, proper training, appropriate education, up to date information, appropriate treatment and responses if you have a complaint. Safety, openness and accountability should be on every ones lips.
I cannot sign away my constitutional rights and refuse to be punished or shamed for standing up for them.
And now our government critters are exempt! Corruption, or trying to protect themselves from scrutiny?
http://cbsradiodetroit.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=00ac207ee1ac5874549a312a0&id=360f187025&e=7430a009ae
Bobbo the Troll strikes once again
He wants to know the alternative to obscene groping at the airport. Why discuss an alternative when Obama has made clear that this process is here to stay?
The next logical step in his and Janet Incompetatano’s distorted view of security is to add Government-Gropers to trains and buses. Might as well do Subways while the checkbook is out, right?
How many more weeks before body cavity searches begin on the flying public?
The naive Bobbo does not realize that all this nut-grabbing and tit-squeezing will end up with more people driving. Since driving is more dangerous than mass transit, all these Federal-Feelers are doing is increasing the amount of American deaths.
One other question: How many Terrorists have the TSA caught with this Federally Mandated Sexual Enhanced Patdown?
Answer: Zero
Cost: Incalculable
From the article linked in #36 “The TSA’s administrator, John Pistole, is treated like any other traveler when he flies, waiting in security lines and walking through X-ray machines, including the full-body imagers, his spokesman said.”
Best laugh I had all day.
We could end the need for these intrusions on our 4th Amendment rights by doing the following:
Remove our troops from the Muslim Holy Lands in the Middle East.
When bin Laden took responsibility for 9/11 his stated reason was that it was done because the US had put troops in Saudi Arabia. If we take them out of there, and other of their “holy” lands, perhaps their behavior would change. In Afghanistan, 93% of the people do not know what happened on 9/11, as their government has censored this news. How would you feel if a foreign army, all of a sudden, came to your country to “make it safe?” They feel it as an occupation. They think that the US wants to take over their country. The sad fact of the matter is that it is not the US, but the US and Western CORPORATIONS, the OIL corporations who want to take over the resources of many of these countries.
AFAIC, if we got our noses out of their business, they would have no reason to come after us. It’s the mentality that the US, who spends more on defense than THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED, seems to want to be the world’s police.
Oh, and while I’m at it, what’s to stop a terrorist from standing somewhere in an unsecured area of an airport, and blowing up a bomb that accomplishes nearly the same thing as blowing up a plane?
This whole thing is a stupid response to something that can be handled quite simply, by bringing our troops home!
This bitch and the TSA are a joke and with leadership like this the terrorist have won.
We need to tone down the TSA bullshit and concentrate on intelligence gathering.
Let our citizens and the Air Marshals take care of the in flight BS if it happens. This has already proven more effective than TSA scanning and feel-ups.
#39. RabbleRouser, Ah, the root of the problem. What are you some kind of crazy LIBERTARIAN!!!!
Planes, trains, mass transit…
right.
How about elevators?
Can’t let the terrorists win!
Some enterprising bomber will undergo a radical surgery replacing his or her entire lower intestine with plastic explosives to get by the scanners.
Then every traveler will have to submit to a colonoscopy before being allowed to fly.
Better to be safe than sorry.
…sorry. Missed the “Next Step” story earlier…
Buzz Mega: I don’t know about stripping out the intestines of someone and replacing them with plastique. You’d get sick VERY quickly.
But, there is really nothing to stop a determined terrorist from implanting a couple of kilos in the abdomen. Use a radio signal (perhaps in an MP3 player) as a detonator.
Not even a colonoscopy would find that. Or breast implants, maybe?
The unfortunate thing is, a successful innovative bombing strategy would never be understood. The evidence is gone and the plane crashed. We are, sadly, only able to look for the types of weapons that have failed.
So, why haven’t the terrorist done it? Why bother, they, like the TSA, have us by the balls!
The 9/11 group succeeded because they were able to take over the cockpits of the planes. Preventing cockpit access stops the use of a plane as a guided missle, and that was done pretty quickly after 9/11. So, that reduced the scope of terrorist acts to single events, like blowing up a plane or subway station, or derailing a train. That’s what the TSA now focuses on, not the commandeering of planes. A suicide bombing of a plane takes two things:
1. Explosives.
Solution: Chemical detection. X-rays don’t detect explosive chemicals, just (maybe) their containers. Go after the chemicals themselves, which are volatile; a lot of technology already exists (including low-tech trained dogs); refine that technology, and stop x-raying and groping humans.
2. Nutcase to carry said explosives.
Solution: Stop the PC bullshit and start profiling like crazy. Also, stop calling it “profiling” and instead call it “using common sense”.
Some anxiety-prone troll will no doubt cry “but then the terrorists will start using 85-year-old white grandmas, or little kids, to carry their suicide belts!!” Really? IF that actually starts happening, then we’ll sit down at the table again and come up with a solution. We do not help ourselves by trying to prevent every imaginable problem, because we don’t have the common sense anymore to know where to draw the line (some idiot apparently just tried to ban pencils from gradeschool…).
That’s some nasty cameltoe.
jbenson2 FTW, bobbo comments notwithstanding.
#34–Anonymous==you challenge: “Imagine if someone comes up to you and starts kicking you because he is bored. By your logic, you shouldn’t ask him to stop until you can think of something else he can do that is more exiting.” /// and with deep thinking like that, I too would keep myself Anon. Easy Peasy: why don’t you go to the Movies? Only slightly more thinking: I would defend myself and hold these criminals under civil arrest until the cops could take them into custody. Their assault would be AGAINST THE LAW. The TSA examinations are legal. You do understand the difference between crime and security don’t you? You post just as if you do not.
#35–Greyhound==speaking to both sides of the issue. Why not resolve to one side or the other?
#37–JB==irrelevant as usual. The discussion of alternatives goes to the legitimacy of the complaints against the current TSA security protocols. Doesn’t matter if they won’t be changed or not. Good job as usual.
“How many terrorists have they caught?” /// Zero. How many terrorists have even tried given the security protocols?==again zero or thats the best evidence and isn’t that the whole point? JB–proof it doesn’t take conscious thinking to breath, and evidently, to type.
#39–Rabble==I too support getting our troops out of foreign lands. It might not “solve” this variation of the terrorist problem but it is the intelligent thing to do all on its own. Soon as JBenson counsels, we aren’t going to have the economic resources to keep these misadventures going and a new batch of international problems will be au current.
#46–Animby==reading to fast to catch my erstwhile question at #29, or like explosives, just too invasive?
#49–what?===WHAT?
#47–cheraz==sorry I missed your fair response. Yes certainly just locking the cockpit door would do alot to stop the hijacking of an airplane==but not much to blow it up.
So you would do “nothing” more than door locking and wait for chemical sniffers to be developed?
Would they spot knives and guns and special chemical bomb components brought onto airplanes==perhaps to blow open the cockpit doors, or shoot the hinges, or kill a stewardess every 10 minute until doors are open?
The notion of “profiling” or using common sense seems like “magical thinkings” to me. How long to train the thousands of interviewers necessary to even claim it can be done? How hard to defeat it would it be? Seems to me a few hours of role playing by any terrorists could defeat it. Israel’s security efforts “work” because there are more attractive targets elsewhere all over the world. Nothing rock solid.
NO ONE agrees letting nuns, grandma, and blue eyed girls on to airplanes without security checks. More magical thinking at play. Identify what will not be checked, and that of course changes the terrorists own analysis==humans are like that.
So, yeah==young Muslim men traveling one way with no luggage paying cash need all the special review we can muster===now what with the remaining 99.9999 of passengers?
bobbo spews- “The TSA examinations are legal. You do understand the difference between crime and security don’t you?”
No, sorry, Not unless you completely disregard the 4th Amend. Which is being done. Idiot. You do understand the difference between crime and pre-crime, presumption of innocence… don’t you? Yeah didn’t think so.
If you understand Engrish..Read the constitution, then read the oath these people are sworn to protect then get on your knees and blow me. There, feel better asshole?
Ugly==hah, hah. You “think” this is unconstitutional?
What a dope.
ah crap==butt Ugly==the relevant issue is what is your alternative?
And you have none, and proud of it.
What a dope. Must be a teabagger.
#51 Bobbo:
“So you would do “nothing” more than door locking and wait for chemical sniffers to be developed?
>> Um, don’t recall saying “do nothing”. Chemical detection technology is already available, but we’ve put our efforts elsewhere, namely x-raying passengers.
“Would they spot knives and guns and special chemical bomb components brought onto airplanes==perhaps to blow open the cockpit doors, or shoot the hinges…”
>> No, Bobbo. Magnetometers do a fine job of detecting metal things like the ones you describe. Maybe you’ve seen one? They’ve been in airports for years.
“…or kill a stewardess every 10 minute until doors are open?”
>> I think the time is past when a planeful of passengers would allow themselves to be held hostage by a box cutter. Furthermore, I don’t see the logic in opening up the cockpit to prevent another hostage being killed, so that the plane could be commandeered and crashed, killing everyone. Like I said, common sense has become a rare commodity.
>>”Profiling” doesn’t mean interviewing, and it certainly doesn’t mean magic. It means having a defined, concise set of criteria, some behavioural (age, ethnicity, nervousness), and some factual (one-way ticket for cash, no baggage, etc., name on a no-fly list, first name Mohammed, etc. etc.). Pay particular attention to those individuals. Everyone goes through the magnetometer.
“Israel’s security efforts “work” because there are more attractive targets elsewhere all over the world. Nothing rock solid.”
>> They also have air marshals, which is actually not a bad idea for every flight.
“NO ONE agrees letting nuns, grandma, and blue eyed girls on to airplanes without security checks.”
>> Who suggested that? I just don’t think they need to be x-rayed or groped.
“…now what with the remaining 99.9999 of passengers?
>> You mean the ones who are just traveling without wanting to blow anything up? That’s the whole point, Bobbo: those folks are not the problem.
cherax==given we mostly agree, finding the disagreement(s) becomes an exercise, but exercise is good for the soul.
So–your objection to the current TSA protocols is their use of image scanning machines and I suppose the pat-down which you don’t mention but is the more disliked procedure. We are both ok with locked doors, air marshalls, profiling, metal detectors, and chemical sniffers when they are available.
I don’t know what level of “security” the ok procedures deliver vs what they fail to discover. Plastic box cutters, plastic guns, bomb components that can’t be sniffed etc. Imagige also allows for detection of smuggling other items for monetary gain: drugs, money, animals, Picasso’s–so I see that as collateral benefits. And if pat downs are offered as an alternative to scanners, I see little reasonable objection there.
So, “being reasonable” to me the issue is one of “cost” vs benefit==purely on the economic issues. What is the full cost of these program components vs the harm that would be experienced by not have any such component? I assume such analysis cannot in fact be done as prediction is based on history/data and we don’t have a such a data base to work with==only models. And we all hate models don’t we?
Maybe a residue question is: how much should the privacy aspect of “no imagining” be valued at? In my book, its about zero. Such people are too self absorbed. Of course there will be TSA agents who grope. They are criminals–report them and let the ineffective personnel rules be applied.
What does catch my attention is your reliance on the profiling technique. I think it has been hyped to extreme. Yes, a total newbie and general F-up could be identified by this procedure, but I will say again, very minimal “training” would avoid this security review. It is afterall based on the subject not being used to scrutiny. Role play the scrutiny and the unfamiliarity goes away.
You also don’t post as if understanding that in all security issues, 99.99999 % of people are innocent. THAT in essence is the very problem being dealt with–not a basis to ignore the very issue.
Happy traveling. Still more likely to be killed on the drive to the airport?
I assume without the “uproar” this solution would not have come forward. Being software driven, seems the nudie pics can be distorted to take the fun out of them while still detecting the contraband. Don’t ya just love progress?
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/21/AR2010112104456.html?wpisrc=nl_pmtech
This is what people around the world know about what is going on in the US. The future of flying in the US.